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Curzon
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Curzon

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January 7th, 2010

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Weather is here, wish you were lovely

Lonely Planet has a list of its online readers nine most hated cities. They are, in order:

1. Detroit, USA
2. Accra, Ghana
3. Seoul, South Korea
4. Los Angeles, USA
5. Wolverhampton, England
6. San Salvador, El Salvador
7. Chennai, India
8. Arusha, Tanzania
9. Chetumal, Mexico

These types of lists are always fun to read, but the list is truly unfair. How can the US have two cities on this list when I’ve been to half a dozen so-called tourist cities in China that look like the inside of a toilet bowl in a tire factory on a bad day (Dengfeng, Chengdu, Kunming, Nanjing, etc. etc.)? And could the list not have included some of the real hellholes, like Caracas, Riyadh, Port Moseby, or Harare? Some of those places probably each have a better developed tourist industry than Detroit. (Meanwhile, Marmot takes more issue with the designation of Arusha than with Seoul.)

Comments to this entry

Robert
January 7, 2010
8:28 am
Actually, I take PLENTY of issue with Seoul's inclusion on the list, for reasons not the least of which is that as the author of a guidebook to said city, it doesn't help to have some guy at the LP label Seoul as "so oppressively bland that the populace is driven to alcoholism." Frankly, I thought Seoul's designation was downright laughable --- I can think of at least half a dozen cities within a five hours' drive of New York alone that are more deserving, including Philly, Baltimore and Washington, DC, to say nothing of perennial crapholes Newark and Camden. What Seoul DOES have, however, is an overpopulation of bitchy expats who never seem to miss an opportunity to bash the city.

PS: Tell me this is "oppressively bland":

http://www.rjkoehler.com/2010/01/06/bukchon-blizzard/
s
January 7, 2010
8:30 am
dengfeng? :)

well, there are worse city in china, e.g. the famed Linfen, and those along the coal rail line. in winter when the coal heating furnaces are on.

but chinese cities are not on the list for one simple reason. they are all safe to walk around.

the shitholes are places like jarkarta, and place i had no gut nor desire to visit, such as kinsasha
s
January 7, 2010
8:36 am
oh yes, camden and newark are shittier than jarkarta.......
Joe Jones
January 7, 2010
10:32 am
My most hated major city is probably Filthadelphia, but it was actually [the future] Mrs. Jones's favorite stop on our tour of the East Coast, moreso than New York, DC or Myrtle Beach. She said she liked Rittenhouse Square and the Old City a lot, and thought they were the most livable-looking areas she saw on the whole trip.

I guess it shows that these things are all about perspective. For what it's worth, I loved my only day-long stay in Seoul, but hated my only day-long stay in Paris...
Curzon
January 7, 2010
12:48 pm
"What Seoul DOES have, however, is an overpopulation of bitchy expats who never seem to miss an opportunity to bash the city."

Hmm... sounds like Tokyo... and Dubai...

Sun Bin, I'll also say that Nanjing in 2003 was a total dump, while in 2006 it was approaching a comfortable, modern city, and had just opened its subway system.
M-Bone
January 7, 2010
1:30 pm
CA bloggers and regulars seem very well-traveled. So what are the best cities?
Guest469
January 7, 2010
4:01 pm
It's a bit unfair to single out Wolverhampton. What with genuine third world hellholes like Liverpool.
Admiral
January 7, 2010
4:26 pm
It's absolutely true that Indonesia and India are underrepresented on this list. I might take issue with Curzon's designation of Chengdu in his hilarious description (I'm still laughing, and will definitely steal it) of comparably bad cities... but for Jakarta to not be at or near the top of this list is shocking.

I survived Jakarta fine, but only the hardiest of ex-pats or travelers who get to know the seedy "inside of the toilet bowl" parts ever say they enjoy it and these people are few and far between. There is essentially *nothing* to see in Jakarta, not just because the smog obscures it. Istiqlal, maybe? Yogyakarta, even Surabaya, are better on Java. Otherwise it takes hours to move 1 or 2 mi by car, it's miserably humid, and crowded beyond compare.

Which leads me to my next point: how can NO Indian cities not be on this list? Are people just not going there?!? I don't want to be rude, since the vast majority of people I know there are truly hospitable and gracious, but the list is crazy. Los Angeles may turn you into a zombie who wants to be on TMZ, but isn't that a better fate than being begged to death in Mumbai? I am off base here?

Finally, where is Bratislava on this list? Talk about a dead end. LOL, it might be the most disappointing capital in the world (except for Jakarta, maybe Canberra). You get off the train... you walk around for 2 hours... and you're done!
Admiral
January 7, 2010
4:30 pm
My favorite cities are, not in a specific order: NYC, Paris, Hong Kong, Orlando, Miami, Incheon, Brisbane, Melbourne, Dubrovnik (Croatia), Eger (Hungary), and Edinburgh. I'm sure there are many others that I have not been to, but all of those cities have plenty that will keep you busy in a good way.

(Okay, okay, I only added Incheon because of the MacArthur statue... but honestly you could spend days appreciating it....)
HIM
January 7, 2010
5:50 pm
Asked around the office about this (we have a well travelled group here).

Me: Dhaka, Bangladesh followed by Detroit, Michigan
GP: Buffalo, New York followed by Barranquilla, Colombia

The rust belt figures pretty highly. For the record I lived in Kabul, and Detroit is worse.
s
January 7, 2010
6:30 pm
well, chengdu is actually one of my favorite cities. very friendly people, grest food, lot to see in the city including that of zhuge liang temple, easy access to a lot of spots, including the leshan buddha, dujiangyan, jiuzhaigou. but i have to admit that i havent been there quite some years.
-- kunming also pretty good, but a bit disappointing relative to the Yunnan (plateau weather and scenery) fame.

curzon, your experience seems to be quite highly correlated to the construction in place. i.e. 'when' factor. beijing was horrible in 2007, and shanghai in 2009, Hong Kong around 1980 -- what is in common, subway under construction.:)

re:admiral, there is a mcarthur park on wilshire, los angeles. i m sure u know about that.
s
January 7, 2010
6:47 pm
unrelated.

http://english.pobediteli.ru/flash.html?DR=0

this is probably not new -- animated map of WWI East Front.
SJPONeill
January 7, 2010
7:46 pm
First thing about Lonely Planet is to confirm that it's staff have actually been to the places in question - I've found LP to be quite unreliable when it comes to anything place even remotely off the beaten track.

Personally, I would like to see Oxford on that list, largely because of my own traumatic experiences on the skewed space/time continuum known as the Oxford Ring Road...
DJ
January 7, 2010
10:31 pm
Add Xian to the list of dirty Chinese tourist cities. Don't want to go back there again.
Robert
January 7, 2010
11:20 pm
(Okay, okay, I only added Incheon because of the MacArthur statue... but honestly you could spend days appreciating it....)


You know, Incheon might just be my favorite Korean city. It's Korea's quintessential "colonial port," and managing to develop while preserving its heritage. Tons of stuff to see there, if you know what you're looking for:

http://www.rjkoehler.com/2007/09/05/a-stroll-through-old-chemulpo/
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2009/05/17/more-heritage-of-incheon/
Lexington Green
January 7, 2010
11:51 pm
Can you hate a place that you have only driven through it, and would not get out of the car there for any reason?

If so, I nominate Gary, Indiana.
Munro Ferguson
January 7, 2010
11:58 pm
I can think of a litany of Mexican border towns that should have made the list. Tijuana, even well before the current drug war was a rather depressing and polluted place.

I very much liked Nara, despite a comical altercation I had with a particularly aggressive sika buck. I'd also put Montreal, Canada up there as a relatively clean, safe and certainly fun city. I'd have to agree with both Newark and Detroit being wretched cities, so wretched that they're fascinating. It'd be interesting to do a photo essay on the industrial wasteland of Newark and the almost medieval urban degradation of Detroit.
Peter
January 8, 2010
1:06 am
I have bad memories of Salinas, CA. And anywhere south of Salinas, CA.

I'm surprised you all are able to compare different cities from around the globe. I really only know the US and Japan. Bridgeport, CT and the other cities mentioned are seldom liked for any reason. I don't know of too many Japanese cities that would make the list of "most hated" (aside: comments seem to flip between cities that are hated and cities that are shitholes. LA is certainly not a shithole from what I've seen, but I've hated the city for 25 years now.) The only contenders from Japan that I can think of are Kawaguchi and Kawasaki, effectively the north and south armpits of Tokyo.
M-Bone
January 8, 2010
1:49 am
M. Ferguson, I'm also very much partial to Nara (where I also had a comical altercation with a deer) and Montreal (which rocks in summer, when I'm far more likely to be closer to Nara).

While there are no major cities in Japan where I wouldn't mind living, my pick for a dreariest three would be Shimonoseki, Morioka, and Akita with Shimonoseki at the very bottom of the barrel because the very nice Fukuoka is just a stone's throw away. Morioka and Akita are at least close to some great views.

Three nice cities around a million or less - Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Kanazawa.
Best of the smaller cities - Matsue, Kochi, Aizu-Wakamatsu.
Not so great smaller cities - Tomakomai, Tsuruga, Tottori, Sasebo.

I'm not well-traveled outside of Japan, but I quite like Boston.
Aceface
January 8, 2010
7:42 am
You can always add Nagoya on the list M-Bone.
The best part I liked about Incheon was the airport.I also liked "Chinatown" without Chinese.
Seoul is better than Tokyo as tourist destination and I found LP accusation rather odd.

Ulaanbaatar can be awful during winter.But still,I've got an apartment there and is one of my favourite.
Best Cities 10
1.Amsterdam
2.Paris
3.London
4.New York
5.Tokyo
6.Ulaanbaatar
7.HongKong
8.Fukuoka
9.Basel
10.Carmel-by-the-Sea.

Worst1o
1.Chiba
2.Okayama
3.Buffalo,NY.
4Washington D.C
5.Kawasaki
6.Phnom Penh
7.Singapore
8.Altanbulag,Mongolia
9Casper,Wy.
10.Salt Lake City,Utah.
DJ
January 8, 2010
1:31 pm
Why do people hate Washington D.C. so much here? Especially if you are a man. It has a great Metro, you can liver just across the river in Arlington, VA if you want better tax, laws etc. Many many young woman working in that town compared to men. Low unemployment and plenty of events going on in the foreign policy realm. The downtown area is very clean and modern.

Downsides:
Weather
Costs
Hard to drive around
Lots of tourists
M-Bone
January 8, 2010
1:51 pm
I really, really like Nagoya. I'd rate it as the most livable/pleasant of the big, big cities (Tokyo, Osaka, Yokoyama, Nagoya). Didn't really fit with any of the categories that I decided on, however.

Ace, Chiba I can see, but what on earth do you have against Okayama? I've been there 4 or 5 times (I like the castle and garden) and didn't really see anything to dislike.
Hakuin
January 8, 2010
4:35 pm
All I can say is.... Lagos.
Aceface
January 8, 2010
4:55 pm
Okayama is way too conservative and boring.Anyway my brother in law is from there.
Nagoya is livable and pleasant.But rather boring place as tourist destination.
M-Bone
January 8, 2010
8:25 pm
Yeah, I feel the same way about Nagoya so I left it off the list. Really does seem like a great place to live. I've recommended it to a few students planning to apply for JET.

Okayama, for me, is a great afternoon at the castle and Korakuen, but you are right, there really isn't anything else. As a travel base, however, it would be great for day (or longer) trips to Hiroshima, Himeji, Matsue/Izumo and Kansai is do-able too.
Roy Berman
January 9, 2010
2:53 am
This is reminding me how little I have actually traveled inside Japan, even though I'm in my sixth year now. I've basically not been anywhere outside of Kansai or Kanto- I just go abroad whenever I feel like I going on a trip, but I should really see some more of Japan.
M-Bone
January 9, 2010
12:15 pm
Well, I basically had to sacrifice travel to anywhere else... From Kyoto, it could be quite nice to go up to Kanazawa and then up the Japan Sea coast, detour to Nagano and Matsumoto, and then on to Niigata and maybe Yamagata. Depends on what you want, but that offers a good mix of historic sites and natural sights.
Curzon
January 9, 2010
8:22 pm
Biking, dear Mr. Berman, is the key. Granted it's the wrong season, but starting in April, the road is yours.
M-Bone
January 9, 2010
9:54 pm
Curzon, what's the best Japan biking experience that you have had?
Curzon
January 10, 2010
6:13 pm
Hokkaido in summer.
M-Bone
January 10, 2010
6:21 pm
Sweet, I'll put it on the list.
Mutantfrog Travelogue » Blog Archive » Where to live in Japan? My, and your, top ten list
January 11, 2010
7:39 am
[...] post on the worst cities to travel to at ComingAnarchy developed into a comment discussion on the worst and best cities, with many regular MF commenters quickly joining the thread and turning the topic into a list of [...]
Aceface
January 11, 2010
9:18 am
It seems Seoul,South Korea yet again become No.3,but this time for good.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/travel/10places.html
Wataru
January 11, 2010
10:12 am
M. Ferguson: "It'd be interesting to do a photo essay on ... the almost medieval urban degradation of Detroit. "

There's a book coming out shortly of such photos. You can see a preview here: http://www.marchandmeffre.com/detroit/

Wataru
Bryce
January 12, 2010
4:29 am
Jon Stewart on the Christmas bomber said it all:

"What, you think he's going to Detroit to start a better life."
David
January 15, 2010
7:15 am
The one time I went to Seoul I thought, "Wow, this looks like Los Angeles." I grew up near LA and always thought its was one of the most disgusting cities on many levels. Anyone here read "City of Quartz"?

I'm all for depressing, worn down cities. In the states I use to camp out in the Imperial Valley of California. But some are just bummers. In Japan, Tsu bummed me out. I only saw a bit of it but it just felt depressing. I had a love/hate reaction to Beppu. Great for onsen, but man that city looks beat up and is just depressing. I totally want to move to Beppu however.

Great cities in Japan (besides my home in Nishinomiya): Matsue, Kitakyushu, Kagoshima, Amagasaki, Akashi, Kobe, Tottori, Sakai, Uji