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Younghusband
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Younghusband

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August 12th, 2009

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What would the world look like if all separatists won?

Wannabe Nations

Infographics designer Theo Deutinger maps out a speculative world of successful non-states. For more Microstate Madness see our posts in micronations and unrepresented states.

Link via Shloky who has a whole mess of interesting graphics from Theo.

Comments to this entry

feeblemind
August 12, 2009
2:14 pm
I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question. What do the white areas of the map represent? Perhaps I looked to quickly but I didn't see an explanation for it.
Shlok
August 12, 2009
2:36 pm
Uncontested areas I think.

Wish he had higher quality versions up (also in English).
PurpleSlog
August 12, 2009
3:19 pm
I assume the white spaces have no separatist movements of note.
Lexington Green
August 12, 2009
3:36 pm
Excellent.

But it is missing Pakhtoonistan, which is certainly something close to the concerns of many people these days, what with a major war going on there!

Also, rather trivially, there is a fairly significant separatist movement in Vermont, but this shows New England as a whole wanting to break off, which I have not heard of.

There was also at one time a fairly serious discussion of making the five burroughs of New York plus the rest of Long Island into a separate state.

It appears that the only large and influential country that is not beset by any separatism is Japan, which is not surprising.
Nathan
August 12, 2009
3:56 pm
Lex, it is probably missing Pakhtoonistan because the only people who ever seriously discuss it as a possible and/or aspirational state are white guys in North America and Europe.
Lexington Green
August 12, 2009
4:43 pm
Yeah, Nathan, white North Americans like the Pakistani ambassador to the USA:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/67966

How serious really are most of these proposed secessions?

There are Pashtun nationalists who are not white people from North America.

How many of them? I suggest you got there in person and ask. Be careful about the mines and small arms fire.
jon
August 12, 2009
6:54 pm
Lex,
re:New England
I would assume the creator was referring to Hartford Convention from the War of 1812. Mostly it was members of the Federalist Party who were considering secession. Basically destroyed what was left of the party.
A
August 13, 2009
4:45 am
California was never really had a separatist movement. It certainly was not an independent republic like Texas or Vermont was. The 'Bear Flag revolt' was more aspirational than it was an actual independence movement from Mexico.
phrawzty
August 13, 2009
8:05 am
Some quick points vis-à-vis Canada :

- There is no separatist / secessionist movement in Ontario (Canada), which makes sense, as the both the capital (Ottawa) and the largest urban area (Toronto) are both within that province. Nor is there one in Nunavut, for exactly the opposite reason : it's more or less empty of people. :P

- If one were to (foolishly?) suggest that Saskatchewan, Alberta, or British Columbia had anything even resembling legitimate movements, then one would have to include both Manitoba and the Yukon Territory as well (see « Western Separatism » on Wikipedia).

- The province of Newfoundland and Labrador is a single administrative unit, spread across the aforementioned island, as well as on the north-east portion of the main landmass - yet, oddly, only the island portion is indicated on the map.
UNRR
August 13, 2009
12:32 pm
This post has been linked for the HOT5 Daily 8/13/2009, at The Unreligious Right
Nathan
August 13, 2009
1:19 pm
Lex:

And the Afghan government has a holiday every year to mark that they don't respect the Durand Line.

Elite discourse is not the same thing as reality. No one in that Newsweek story was quoted as agitating for an independent Pashtun state that incorporates both Afghan and Pakistani Pashtuns. A former ambassador said he's afraid of an Islamist Pashtunistan emerging, not that there's a nationalist secession movement and not that it's cross-border.
¿Cómo sería el mundo si todos los separatistas ganasen?
August 13, 2009
3:26 pm
[...] ¿Cómo sería el mundo si todos los separatistas ganasen?cominganarchy.com/2009/08/12/wannabe-state/ por Eyquem hace pocos segundos [...]
Thomas
August 13, 2009
6:01 pm
Separatist movements the world 'round, especially those that turn violent, are a major example of why the union of Nations, groups of people with similar cultural identities, and States should be avoided.

The single nation state gives the prejudices and vagaries of human tribalism the legitimacy and resources of a country and that's simply a path to destruction.
¿Cómo sería el mundo si todos los independentistas ganasen?
August 13, 2009
6:50 pm
[...] portada votar pendientes corrillos   1 ¿Cómo sería el mundo si todos los independentistas ganasen? • cominganarchy.compor davidvicente hace pocos segundos independencia mundo Curioso [...]
kastanedowski
August 13, 2009
7:08 pm
in Poland? are you crazy

In Mexico is normal, they steal all territories and surely people don't forget, but what a hek ar you talking about Poland?
kastanedowski
August 13, 2009
7:08 pm
in Poland? are you crazy

In Mexico is normal, they steal all territories and surely people don't forget, but what a hek ar you talking about Poland?
Ayoze
August 13, 2009
7:16 pm
This picture is missing Asturies (Asturias) and LLion (León), in Spain.
Cantabrian Country
August 13, 2009
8:26 pm
And Cantabria, Aragon and Castile, in Spanish State too.
Javi
August 13, 2009
8:31 pm
I have to make a correction, Galicia in the northwest of spain is not a separatist region, in fact we only try to defend our own language (Galego), because of at the time of the spanish dictatorship was suppressed and is not yet fully recovered.
But you are wrong if you think it is a separatist region because it is not.

And sorry for my poor english, i'm still workin on it ^^ :p

Greetings.
joan
August 13, 2009
8:32 pm
QUE VISQUEN CATALUNYA I EL PAÍS VALENCIÀ!!!!!

VIVU KATALUNION KAJ VALENCILANDON!!!
Jesús Couto
August 13, 2009
8:55 pm
And it does well to miss them, AYOZE, as the separatists movements there are very marginal in comparision to the others.

If it had to reflect that level of support for separatism the map would become fractal in no time.

(Do not take it as an attack on the validity of those separatisms; they just dont have enough followers, is all I'm saying
Cobra
August 13, 2009
9:07 pm
haha: Llion Llure, ah? and what´s about Tierra Comunera? haha. I´m from Spain: Andalucia in NOT a separatist region. In fact, Andalucia represents the true essence os spaniards. Nice map
santiago
August 13, 2009
9:11 pm
There is no separatist movements on Andalucia (Spanish)
santiago
August 13, 2009
9:12 pm
Spain sorry xD
ferran
August 13, 2009
9:36 pm
andalucia? no no no
catalan
August 13, 2009
9:54 pm
AYOZE don't be silly, please. Asturias and Leon is Spain and the rest is just conquered land.
Xavier
August 13, 2009
10:17 pm
You miss Valencian Kingdown (Regne de Valencia) that has been included in other zone
bmrpeal
August 14, 2009
12:19 am
Maybe you're veery bad informed about Spain, but in Andalucía there is NOT a separatist movement or anything else. Only in the "País Vasco" and "Cataluña" exist a separatist movement. Andalucía is one of the most integrated regions of Spain :)
ABOUT SPAIN
August 14, 2009
12:53 am
No way!

Spain is absolutely wrong. Since when do the Andalucians want to be independent? I'm Andalucian myself and this is the fist time I hear this.

The rest of the Spanish regions wouldn't want to be independent if a referendum would take place. It's only wished by certain local politicians out of mind.

On the other hand I miss Okinawa and most probably Kansai, in Japan.

A higher resolution of the map would be great!
Luque
August 14, 2009
1:15 am
Andalucía si quiere formar parte de España, el que ha hecho el mapa no tiene ni zorra.

Para los anglófonos:

Andalusia is part of Spain.
Curzon
August 14, 2009
1:21 am
I'm guessing this post got picked up by some Anti-Andalucian independence Spanish website ;)

Thanks for your comments. Please note this post just displays the work of another author -- we did not create the map.
Jason
August 14, 2009
2:21 am
Who's up for a game of Risk?
sarlanga
August 14, 2009
3:39 am
Santa Cruz is a province of Argentina, not a separatist movement. The Mapuche are the original people of the country.

Ignorant at best. Badly at worst.
unoquepasaba
August 14, 2009
6:23 am
Luque
"August 14, 2009
1:15 am
Andalucía si quiere formar parte de España, el que ha hecho el mapa no tiene ni zorra.

Para los anglófonos:

Andalusia is part of Spain. "

Estoy con Luque. Han querido pintar más de la cuenta.
M-Bone
August 14, 2009
6:53 am
Are those all really sepratist movements in Canada? Or are they more #&#% Quebec movements?
Josep
August 14, 2009
7:26 am
Kingdom of Valencia? And where's the King? Països Catalans, lliures i sobirans!
Azahara
August 14, 2009
7:54 am
It would be great if the map included the white areas with the countries (or the rest of them). Maybe I try to do it by myself.

And please don't close your eyes, of course there is a separatist movement in Andalusia, you like it or not. "Andalucia represents the true essence os spaniards"... Uhmm, isn't our fault that Spain have stolen Andalusian culture. I'm not gonna take part in any ridiculous discussion about Spain here (it's been quite dirty this site with our comments), so now you are free to insult me if you want to ;)

Greetings.
yo
August 14, 2009
8:26 am
The map of Spain is completely wrong. There wasn't any separatist party representation ever in Andalusia, EVER. The same in Valencia. You forgot, however, the Castilian nationalists, that do have representation in the regional parlament. You forgot aragonese nationalists too (they have little representation, similar to galician nationalists). The nationalists in Canarian islands are not secesionists, but they have more percentual representation than galician nationalists. You forgot the nationalists in Asturias (nowadays they don't have political representation in the regional parlament, but they had it in the past). And finally, you forgot the aranese nationalists in Catalonia (Vall d'Aran). They want to be independent from Catalonia.
The person who designed this map did not know anything about Spain. Completely wrong, completely wrong.
Pelouro
August 14, 2009
8:29 am
Javi: in Galicia there IS independentism, maybe not as strong as in the Basque Country or Catalonia, but it's significant nonetheless. The map is right in that regard

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galician_nationalism
CASTELL
August 14, 2009
8:57 am
To Josep, Juan Carlos the first is the king of Valencia's kingdom and Count of Barcelona. Valencia´s kingdom doesn't belongs to Paisos Catalans, it form part of the Aragon's Crown (Corona de Aragón).
Miguel Ángel de la Fuente Frechoso
August 14, 2009
9:29 am
SPANISH:
El mapa es gracioso, pero no tiene mucho sentido. No todos los que el mapa llama "separatistas" lo son.
Decir que Matabeleland son separatistas es una grave burrada de las de no tener ni idea. http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gukurahundi

También es ignorancia colocar andalucía como región separatista, pero en fin...
Chechenia debería estar, pero no la encuentro y Rusia está cargándose allí hasta a los periodistas que sacan fotos...
ENGLISH:
Is a funny map, but is quite wrong. We make a big political mistake if we call them all these regions "separatist".
Andalucía (im from Córdoba) has never been separatist. We are quite being part of Spain, and nobody intend to separate.
Other spanish regions: Cantabria, Asturias, Galicia are not separatists.

I strongly hesitate Madeira want to separate from Portugal.

Matabeleland are not separatist: the horrible dictatorship of the insane Robert Mugabe commetted horrific atrocities in Matabeleland. The whole Zimbabwe is being subjugated by this military dictatorship.
Gukurahundi is a proper terror campaign made by the zimbabwean army (with help of north corean army) in Matabeleland from 1982-1990 where around 30.000 matabele/ndebele people where tortured and murdered.
Please read:
(in spanish) http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gukurahundi
(in english) http://www.chathamhouse.org.uk/files/9834_040907zimbabwe.pdf

And finally where the hell is CHECHENIA and why is not in the map? they deserve to be independent and free from the Russian repressive power.

Thank you for the map!!!
Is an interesting map and made us think about the world.
Please think about our opinions for the next map!!

Hasta luego a todos.
Jitanus
August 14, 2009
9:47 am
Es un mapa curioso pero poco fiel a la historia y realidad.
August
August 14, 2009
9:51 am
What about Crete?
ARTEVIRGO
August 14, 2009
9:54 am
You've forgotten in this map Canary Islands, in Northwest Africa.

Ahul.
Xabier
August 14, 2009
10:33 am
Para Javi.
[Edited by moderators] Galiza have an Independist Movement in fact. [Edited by moderators] In this map you will see the separatist movements, not your opinion.
Si los separatismos triunfaran… | Juego de Tronos
August 14, 2009
11:04 am
[...] descubierto este mapa a través de Menéame. Cuando menos es [...]
Aceface
August 14, 2009
11:09 am
Freedom for Okinawa!
Pompeu
August 14, 2009
12:23 pm
In Spain the map forgot: Llucmajor, Villafranca, Tarifa, Guadarrama, Son Banya, Albacete, Cuenca y Valdemorillo del sur
inspanishsorry
August 14, 2009
2:28 pm
Para todos aquellos que dicen que Andalucía no es separatista les recuerdo que en Andalucía SÍ hay un movimiento separatista. Otra cosa es que no tenga mucho apoyo en las urnas pero si se trata de eso entonces que se diga cuanto apoyo tiene que tener para que se considere separatista.
avascocc
August 14, 2009
6:26 pm
In Brazil, South separation is imminent, and other regions over time. The dissolution of Brazil in many countries is becoming a necessity.
alfanje
August 15, 2009
11:57 am
@Sarlanga . There is a Santa Cruz province in Argentina, but another Santa Cruz (de la Sierra) in Bolivia, to which the map refers.
As far as I know there is a political movement in Santa Cruz, Bolivia which is rather autonomist, as opposed to separatist, in nature.
spandrell
August 15, 2009
4:56 pm
aah Spain's the dumbest country on Europe.
Like anyone cares.
HOT5 Daily 8/13/2009 « The Cyber Lifestyle & Tech Blog
August 16, 2009
12:49 pm
[...] get the public to pipe down and go along quietly with their planned takeover of health care.2. "What would the world look like if all separatists won?"The world has many separatist movements. Interesting map. Representative Sample: It's a graphic. [...]
edu
August 18, 2009
12:24 am
please check the flags, there more than 15 mistakes, not really true things

por favor repasad las banderas hay mas de 15 fallos poco estudio de campo
tonterias vanales

y al que dice que no responde a la historia...sigue votando a derechas gilipollas
Brian King
August 19, 2009
4:00 pm
Thanks for this post. Even the author's site doesn't have the hi res version. This would be fascinating to study in more detail.
American States Rights : Great History
August 19, 2009
4:41 pm
[...] these lines, I found this map showing separatists movements across the globe. Maybe we will see more US states on the map [...]
Anselmo L.
August 19, 2009
6:10 pm
Aunque seamos minoría, somos muchos los andaluces soberanistas. Los hay independentistas, federalistas, incluso confederalistas que aspiran a una Andalucía libre dentro de una confederación de repúblicas ibéricas, inluida Portugal.

Viva Andalucía Libre!!!!!
María Morralla
August 19, 2009
6:12 pm
ANDALUSIA IS NOT SPAIN

FREE ANDALUSIA
Anselmo L.
August 19, 2009
6:16 pm
Aunque sean minoría y no estén articulados políticamente, en Andalucía existe un importante movimiento cultural soberanista que aspira a una Andalucía libre. Algunos demandan la independencia y otros el federalismo: una Andalucía soberana en el marco de una confederación de repúblicas ibéricas, incluida Portugal. Un sueño libertario.
Viva Andalucía Libre!!!!
s
August 20, 2009
3:02 pm
aceface answered lexington green's question about japan.