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	<title>Comments on: Turkey Looks&#160;East</title>
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	<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/07/30/turkey-looks-east/</link>
	<description>Speak Victorian, Think Pagan</description>
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		<title>By: ElamBend</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/07/30/turkey-looks-east/comment-page-1/#comment-390391</link>
		<dc:creator>ElamBend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:13:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=6357#comment-390391</guid>
		<description>Oliver,
re-reading your original post, I believe I overly concentrated on your first sentence and missed your point.  You are correct and the point stands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oliver,<br />
re-reading your original post, I believe I overly concentrated on your first sentence and missed your point.  You are correct and the point stands.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/07/30/turkey-looks-east/comment-page-1/#comment-390390</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 20:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=6357#comment-390390</guid>
		<description>That makes Turkey a good investment opportunity.
But applying for membership in the EU, Europe is the correct reference point. I am afraid the point stands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That makes Turkey a good investment opportunity.<br />
But applying for membership in the <span class="caps">EU,</span> Europe is the correct reference point. I am afraid the point stands.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ElamBend</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/07/30/turkey-looks-east/comment-page-1/#comment-390388</link>
		<dc:creator>ElamBend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 02:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=6357#comment-390388</guid>
		<description>&quot;The Turks are many, poor and Muslim.&quot;
Thus may be true, but only when not taken into context of their surroundings.  To the south they have a much poorer region in the Arab world with essentially an un- or under-developed economy.  Turkey is no Europe, sure, but it&#039;s immediate European neighbors are economic backwaters in comparison.  To come from SW Europe into Istanbul is to leave barbaria and to enter civilization.  To their north they have the Russosphere (Russia, Ukraine, Belorus), an economic backwards area that is suffering severe social malaise and has a shrinking population.  To the South East is a traditional rival &#039;Persia,&#039; which has much less people compared to Turkey and is undergoing a similar demographic and social malaise as the Russosphere, just 20 years behind.  

Turkey has a surprisingly diverse and sophisticated economy, a large population, and a sense of dynamism and self.  Compared to a western European country, they don&#039;t amount to too much, but compared to anyone in the neighborhood, they are dynamic.  (They also are relatively less corrupt than their neighbors).  They have opened many Turkic cultural centers throughout central Asia.

Their appeal to their Turkic cousins may be partially based upon a distortion of history, but to so discount them would be a mistake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Turks are many, poor and Muslim.&#8221;<br />
Thus may be true, but only when not taken into context of their surroundings.  To the south they have a much poorer region in the Arab world with essentially an un- or under-developed economy.  Turkey is no Europe, sure, but it&#8217;s immediate European neighbors are economic backwaters in comparison.  To come from SW Europe into Istanbul is to leave barbaria and to enter civilization.  To their north they have the Russosphere (Russia, Ukraine, Belorus), an economic backwards area that is suffering severe social malaise and has a shrinking population.  To the South East is a traditional rival &#8216;Persia,&#8217; which has much less people compared to Turkey and is undergoing a similar demographic and social malaise as the Russosphere, just 20 years behind.  </p>

<p>Turkey has a surprisingly diverse and sophisticated economy, a large population, and a sense of dynamism and self.  Compared to a western European country, they don&#8217;t amount to too much, but compared to anyone in the neighborhood, they are dynamic.  (They also are relatively less corrupt than their neighbors).  They have opened many Turkic cultural centers throughout central Asia.</p>

<p>Their appeal to their Turkic cousins may be partially based upon a distortion of history, but to so discount them would be a mistake.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: M-Bone</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/07/30/turkey-looks-east/comment-page-1/#comment-390383</link>
		<dc:creator>M-Bone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=6357#comment-390383</guid>
		<description>&quot;Pot. Kettle. Black.&quot;

Sucks, sure. But, scale aside, the 3 weeks ago vs. 80 years ago question is a legit one (unless you are talking about Kurds....)

I think that this situation goes to show that if China continues to give a universal FU on its minority problems, that there will be backlash (and from people who can be a whole lot less polite than the French).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Pot. Kettle. Black.&#8221;</p>

<p>Sucks, sure. But, scale aside, the 3 weeks ago vs. 80 years ago question is a legit one (unless you are talking about Kurds&#8230;.)</p>

<p>I think that this situation goes to show that if China continues to give a universal FU on its minority problems, that there will be backlash (and from people who can be a whole lot less polite than the French).</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/07/30/turkey-looks-east/comment-page-1/#comment-390382</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 15:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=6357#comment-390382</guid>
		<description>&quot;And Turkey then went on to call China’s acts in Xinjiang &#039;genocide&#039;.”

Pot. Kettle. Black.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;And Turkey then went on to call China&acirc;s acts in Xinjiang &#8216;genocide&#8217;.&acirc;</p>

<p>Pot. Kettle. Black.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: s</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/07/30/turkey-looks-east/comment-page-1/#comment-390381</link>
		<dc:creator>s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=6357#comment-390381</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think that Turkey will get drawn more towards one region over the others. Until recently, most people would have said Europe,&quot;


well...the turks may say &quot;pushed away&quot;, instead of &quot;drawn to&quot;....

regardless, IMHO the xinjiang position is likely an issue perpendicular to the geographic gravitation issues. as others have said, this is more or less purely ethnic, which is also echoed by aceface&#039;s observation in mongolia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think that Turkey will get drawn more towards one region over the others. Until recently, most people would have said Europe,&#8221;</p>


<p>well&#8230;the turks may say &#8220;pushed away&#8221;, instead of &#8220;drawn to&#8221;&#8230;.</p>

<p>regardless, <span class="caps">IMHO </span>the xinjiang position is likely an issue perpendicular to the geographic gravitation issues. as others have said, this is more or less purely ethnic, which is also echoed by aceface&#8217;s observation in mongolia.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/07/30/turkey-looks-east/comment-page-1/#comment-390380</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 10:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The Turks are many, poor and Muslim. It is very likely that there will always be at least one major EU member state ready to block Turkey&#039;s membership.
Nor have the Arabs forgotten the Ottoman Empire. Turkey has less of a choice than you think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Turks are many, poor and Muslim. It is very likely that there will always be at least one major EU member state ready to block Turkey&#8217;s membership.<br />
Nor have the Arabs forgotten the Ottoman Empire. Turkey has less of a choice than you think.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Curzon</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/07/30/turkey-looks-east/comment-page-1/#comment-390370</link>
		<dc:creator>Curzon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 22:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=6357#comment-390370</guid>
		<description>&quot;I do not agree with your idea that Turkey must &#039;pick&#039; a region to go forward with.&quot;

Brzezinski&#039;s words, not mine. 

Sure, Ankara will continue to reach out to all sides, but as the course of human events progresses, I think that Turkey will get drawn more towards one region over the others.  Until recently, most people would have said Europe, what with the planned EU membership/integration.  Now I&#039;m not so sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I do not agree with your idea that Turkey must &#8216;pick&#8217; a region to go forward with.&#8221;</p>

<p>Brzezinski&#8217;s words, not mine. </p>

<p>Sure, Ankara will continue to reach out to all sides, but as the course of human events progresses, I think that Turkey will get drawn more towards one region over the others.  Until recently, most people would have said Europe, what with the planned EU membership/integration.  Now I&#8217;m not so sure.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Jeremiah</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/07/30/turkey-looks-east/comment-page-1/#comment-390368</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremiah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=6357#comment-390368</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re a key domestic reason for Ankara&#039;s support of the Uighurs, namely ethnicity and the role of ethnic nationalism within Turkish politics. Turks are a very a very nationalistic people. This nationalism embedded within Turkish culture since the founding of the Republic is in tightly linked to ethno-nationalism. To be a citizen of Turkey is to foremost share a sense of Turkishness within a nation of Turkic people. For many Turks, diasporas of Turks in the Caucasus or Central Asia are linked to the Turkish people. 

The AKP has traditionally never been able to win over nationalistic voters. In part, this is because the AKP has a different conception on the split between citizenship and identity, similar to debates in France. Turkish nationalists are generally represented in the two opposition parties:  the Republican People&#039;s Party (CHP) and the Nationalist Movement Party (MHP). These two parties continually reference nationalism in their platforms and in their symbolism. However, all Turks are still nationalists at the end of the day and can become very nationalistic very quickly. CHP and MHP tend to attract the more militant nationalists.

The CHP and MHP would both gladly use a lack of a strong reaction from Erdoğan paint the AKP as a party that doesn&#039;t care about fellow Turkic people; the Uighurs have close historical, linguistic, and religio-cultural ties with Turkish people. At a time when the AKP is in a very precarious political position, mounting pressure from the CHP and MHP and the public forced Erdoğan to take a strong stand in this case.

Now, as far as your overall question about the direction of Turkish foreign policy, I would say that yes, this represents a change from Ankara.  This isn&#039;t a sudden change though, it&#039;s been happening for the last 7-8 years since the AKP came to party. Turkish foreign policy in the 1990&#039;s was the same as it had been since the founding of the Turkish Republic; non-interventionist, the preeminence of hard power, and a generally passive foreign policy. This has changed since the election of the AKP. The AKP has made Turkish foreign policy more proactive, multidimensional, and placed more emphasis on soft power.

I do not agree with your idea that Turkey must &#039;pick&#039; a region to go forward with. Turkey has always been tightly couple with both Europe and America. The AKP came to power, in part, on a platform to greater increase Turkish ties with the European Union, implementing major reforms that lead to the opening of Turkish ascension talks to the European Union. Since then, there has been a recognized cooling of relations between the EU and Turkey. As a result, Turkey&#039;s foreign policy orientation has shifted away from Europe, as you mentioned, towards the Caucasus&#039;s, Central Asia, and the Middle East.

I do not, however, see this as a sign of Turkey picking to move away from Europe. Turkey is strenghtening its relationships with these other regions in order to make its perceived value within the eyes of the EU increase. Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu encapsulates this view perfectly when he says that “If Turkey does not have a solid stance in Asia, it would have very limited chances with the EU.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re a key domestic reason for Ankara&#8217;s support of the Uighurs, namely ethnicity and the role of ethnic nationalism within Turkish politics. Turks are a very a very nationalistic people. This nationalism embedded within Turkish culture since the founding of the Republic is in tightly linked to ethno-nationalism. To be a citizen of Turkey is to foremost share a sense of Turkishness within a nation of Turkic people. For many Turks, diasporas of Turks in the Caucasus or Central Asia are linked to the Turkish people. </p>

<p>The <span class="caps">AKP </span>has traditionally never been able to win over nationalistic voters. In part, this is because the <span class="caps">AKP </span>has a different conception on the split between citizenship and identity, similar to debates in France. Turkish nationalists are generally represented in the two opposition parties:  the Republican People&#8217;s Party (CHP) and the Nationalist Movement Party (MHP). These two parties continually reference nationalism in their platforms and in their symbolism. However, all Turks are still nationalists at the end of the day and can become very nationalistic very quickly. <span class="caps">CHP </span>and <span class="caps">MHP </span>tend to attract the more militant nationalists.</p>

<p>The <span class="caps">CHP </span>and <span class="caps">MHP </span>would both gladly use a lack of a strong reaction from Erdo&Auml;an paint the <span class="caps">AKP </span>as a party that doesn&#8217;t care about fellow Turkic people; the Uighurs have close historical, linguistic, and religio-cultural ties with Turkish people. At a time when the <span class="caps">AKP </span>is in a very precarious political position, mounting pressure from the <span class="caps">CHP </span>and <span class="caps">MHP </span>and the public forced Erdo&Auml;an to take a strong stand in this case.</p>

<p>Now, as far as your overall question about the direction of Turkish foreign policy, I would say that yes, this represents a change from Ankara.  This isn&#8217;t a sudden change though, it&#8217;s been happening for the last 7-8 years since the <span class="caps">AKP </span>came to party. Turkish foreign policy in the 1990&#8217;s was the same as it had been since the founding of the Turkish Republic; non-interventionist, the preeminence of hard power, and a generally passive foreign policy. This has changed since the election of the <span class="caps">AKP.</span> The <span class="caps">AKP </span>has made Turkish foreign policy more proactive, multidimensional, and placed more emphasis on soft power.</p>

<p>I do not agree with your idea that Turkey must &#8216;pick&#8217; a region to go forward with. Turkey has always been tightly couple with both Europe and America. The <span class="caps">AKP </span>came to power, in part, on a platform to greater increase Turkish ties with the European Union, implementing major reforms that lead to the opening of Turkish ascension talks to the European Union. Since then, there has been a recognized cooling of relations between the EU and Turkey. As a result, Turkey&#8217;s foreign policy orientation has shifted away from Europe, as you mentioned, towards the Caucasus&#8217;s, Central Asia, and the Middle East.</p>

<p>I do not, however, see this as a sign of Turkey picking to move away from Europe. Turkey is strenghtening its relationships with these other regions in order to make its perceived value within the eyes of the EU increase. Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davuto&Auml;lu encapsulates this view perfectly when he says that &acirc;If Turkey does not have a solid stance in Asia, it would have very limited chances with the <span class="caps">EU.</span>&acirc;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Aceface</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/07/30/turkey-looks-east/comment-page-1/#comment-390367</link>
		<dc:creator>Aceface</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=6357#comment-390367</guid>
		<description>Turks has always interested in expanding their influence in Tukic speaking world.
The Turkish Embassy in Ulaanbaatar stands right infront of Russian Embassy and it&#039;s huge.They are also spending huge budget on archaeological excavation of Turkic nomads in Mongolian steppe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Turks has always interested in expanding their influence in Tukic speaking world.<br />
The Turkish Embassy in Ulaanbaatar stands right infront of Russian Embassy and it&#8217;s huge.They are also spending huge budget on archaeological excavation of Turkic nomads in Mongolian steppe.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: B</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/07/30/turkey-looks-east/comment-page-1/#comment-390366</link>
		<dc:creator>B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 08:35:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=6357#comment-390366</guid>
		<description>The Al-Qaeda angle is of concern for China, I believe.  I think in the past 10 years, they have managed to get away with their resource search activities in other countries without much blow-back.  It could be just AQ talk given that they might not want to take on China as well, but the Chinese are probably a much easier target than Westerners. 

I remember back during the hijack of the  American boat near Somalia there was quite a lot of admiration among people in China for the way US sent in the SEAL&#039;s to rescue the crew.  One of my Mainland friends who had worked in Pakistan told me that the Chinese government rarely, if ever, looks out for the interests of individual Chinese who are abroad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Al-Qaeda angle is of concern for China, I believe.  I think in the past 10 years, they have managed to get away with their resource search activities in other countries without much blow-back.  It could be just AQ talk given that they might not want to take on China as well, but the Chinese are probably a much easier target than Westerners. </p>

<p>I remember back during the hijack of the  American boat near Somalia there was quite a lot of admiration among people in China for the way US sent in the <span class="caps">SEAL&#8217;</span>s to rescue the crew.  One of my Mainland friends who had worked in Pakistan told me that the Chinese government rarely, if ever, looks out for the interests of individual Chinese who are abroad.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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