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	<title>Comments on: The Post-Nuclear Iran&#160;World</title>
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	<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/02/14/the-nuclear-iran-world/</link>
	<description>Speak Victorian, Think Pagan</description>
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		<title>By: kurt9</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/02/14/the-nuclear-iran-world/comment-page-1/#comment-388294</link>
		<dc:creator>kurt9</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 23:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=4817#comment-388294</guid>
		<description>The Iranians will not make just 2-3 bombs. They will make enough so as to have a deterrent, which is around 50 bombs. Despite the shrill ranting and raving of the current president, the Iranians will not talk much about it until they actually have their deterrent in place. At least this is how I would handle it if I were in charge.

The Iranians have good reason to have nukes. They have historically or currently unfriendly governments on 3 sides. They have the Turks and the Sunni Iraqis to the west. The Persians have had many conflicts in history with the Turks and fought an 8 year war with Saddam&#039;s Iraq during the 80&#039;s. To the east they have the Afghans and the Pakistanis. The Persians came close to war with the Taliban Afghans in 1998 and everyone knows that the Pakistanis, like the Indians, are psycho. To the south, there are the Arabs. The Persians look down on the Arabs in the same manner as many Anglos in Southern California look down on the Mexicans, only more so.

The only semi-friendly governments the Persians have borders with are to the north. They seem to be on good terms with the Azeris (which make up 25% of Iran anyways) and the Turkmen of Turkenistan, and this last one is questionable.

Also, remember that the Pakistanis already have 50-75 nukes. Although these are intended to keep the Indian leviathan at bay, these could conceivably be used against Iran.

Oh, did I forget? The Persians (and other Iranians) are shiite. Most of their neighbors are sunni. The sunnis and shiites feel about the same about each other as the catholics and protestants felt about each other, say, during the 30 year war.

Of course, if the Persians get the bomb, the Arabs will want them too, and the Pakistanis do not count as Arabs. Thus, you get a nuclear arms-race in the middle-east. Perhaps it will all end in a regional nuclear war, say, around 2030.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Iranians will not make just 2-3 bombs. They will make enough so as to have a deterrent, which is around 50 bombs. Despite the shrill ranting and raving of the current president, the Iranians will not talk much about it until they actually have their deterrent in place. At least this is how I would handle it if I were in charge.</p>

<p>The Iranians have good reason to have nukes. They have historically or currently unfriendly governments on 3 sides. They have the Turks and the Sunni Iraqis to the west. The Persians have had many conflicts in history with the Turks and fought an 8 year war with Saddam&#8217;s Iraq during the 80&#8217;s. To the east they have the Afghans and the Pakistanis. The Persians came close to war with the Taliban Afghans in 1998 and everyone knows that the Pakistanis, like the Indians, are psycho. To the south, there are the Arabs. The Persians look down on the Arabs in the same manner as many Anglos in Southern California look down on the Mexicans, only more so.</p>

<p>The only semi-friendly governments the Persians have borders with are to the north. They seem to be on good terms with the Azeris (which make up 25% of Iran anyways) and the Turkmen of Turkenistan, and this last one is questionable.</p>

<p>Also, remember that the Pakistanis already have 50-75 nukes. Although these are intended to keep the Indian leviathan at bay, these could conceivably be used against Iran.</p>

<p>Oh, did I forget? The Persians (and other Iranians) are shiite. Most of their neighbors are sunni. The sunnis and shiites feel about the same about each other as the catholics and protestants felt about each other, say, during the 30 year war.</p>

<p>Of course, if the Persians get the bomb, the Arabs will want them too, and the Pakistanis do not count as Arabs. Thus, you get a nuclear arms-race in the middle-east. Perhaps it will all end in a regional nuclear war, say, around 2030.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: von Moltke</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/02/14/the-nuclear-iran-world/comment-page-1/#comment-388285</link>
		<dc:creator>von Moltke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=4817#comment-388285</guid>
		<description>The most worrying aspect of the pending or present nuclearisation of this region (be it in Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or what have you in the Middle East) is that it little more than a crop of pending failed states.  The future of the Middle East can be nicely forecast by a look at the Horn of Africa.  These states, without petroleum products, will have no source if income (the UAE can forget its darling status in that neighbourhood) and they will be unable to provide internal security, let alone fund third-party terrorist proxies.

http://www.gulfnews.com/business/General/10284709.html

Oil has peaked, but OPEC populations have not.  The Arab situation is true for Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and sub-Saharan African.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most worrying aspect of the pending or present nuclearisation of this region (be it in Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, or what have you in the Middle East) is that it little more than a crop of pending failed states.  The future of the Middle East can be nicely forecast by a look at the Horn of Africa.  These states, without petroleum products, will have no source if income (the <span class="caps">UAE </span>can forget its darling status in that neighbourhood) and they will be unable to provide internal security, let alone fund third-party terrorist proxies.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.gulfnews.com/business/General/10284709.html">http://www.gulfnews.com/business/General/10284709.html</a></p>

<p>Oil has peaked, but <span class="caps">OPEC </span>populations have not.  The Arab situation is true for Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and sub-Saharan African.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/02/14/the-nuclear-iran-world/comment-page-1/#comment-388271</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=4817#comment-388271</guid>
		<description>Two observations.  First, as noted in the comment above the IAEA found Iran to be in noncompliance with its obligations under the NPT.   Since that determination Iran has never been certified as having come back into compliance.  It&#039;s still out of compliance.

Second, I think that Munro Ferguson, like many in the West, overestimates Israel&#039;s appetite for carnage in Iran.  Short of a preventive, genocidal, exterminatory attack Israel doesn&#039;t have the ability to eliminate Iran&#039;s nuclear development program, only to slow it.  Given that limitation and the likely response from the Iranians to anything smaller an attack by Israel on, say, Iran&#039;s main nuclear development facility would be foolhardy.  I think that despite the sabre-rattling, the Israelis are aware of that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two observations.  First, as noted in the comment above the <span class="caps">IAEA </span>found Iran to be in noncompliance with its obligations under the <span class="caps">NPT.  </span> Since that determination Iran has never been certified as having come back into compliance.  It&#8217;s still out of compliance.</p>

<p>Second, I think that Munro Ferguson, like many in the West, overestimates Israel&#8217;s appetite for carnage in Iran.  Short of a preventive, genocidal, exterminatory attack Israel doesn&#8217;t have the ability to eliminate Iran&#8217;s nuclear development program, only to slow it.  Given that limitation and the likely response from the Iranians to anything smaller an attack by Israel on, say, Iran&#8217;s main nuclear development facility would be foolhardy.  I think that despite the sabre-rattling, the Israelis are aware of that.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chirol</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/02/14/the-nuclear-iran-world/comment-page-1/#comment-388269</link>
		<dc:creator>Chirol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 20:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=4817#comment-388269</guid>
		<description>Mojgan: I imagine if we asked readers to limit their comments to what they actually knew about, there would be far less of them.

First of all, the map shows both India and Pakistan as being nuclear states, Israel was too small for hte graphic to fit. Second of all, Israeli, India and Pakistan HAVE NOT signed the NPT and are therefore not doing anything illegal. 

Iran, however, has signed the NPT yet has not been forthcoming about its nuclear program. If you actually are familiar with and have read the NPT, you&#039;ll surely know Iran like every other NPT signatory has the legal right to peaceful nuclear energy. The US government and EU have both acknowledged this before. It is NOT the issue.

The issue is that Iran has not been completely open about its program, has been found to be in noncompliance by the IAEA and UNSC (1747). In addition, it continues its ballistic missile program and was exposed as customer of the AQ Khan network (who also supplied Libya and North Korea). 

Moreover, it&#039;s diplomatic record is clear. Negotiate, stall for time, proceed with its program, comply with legal requirements and pretend that it is a voluntary measure of good faith instead of a legal obligation, then repeat.

All of this makes it very clear Iran _likely_ has an illicit nuclear weapons program.  

If Iran withdraws from the NPT, as members are allowed to do with 90 days notice, then it will not be breaking any laws. But as long as it is an NPT member, it must follow them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mojgan: I imagine if we asked readers to limit their comments to what they actually knew about, there would be far less of them.</p>

<p>First of all, the map shows both India and Pakistan as being nuclear states, Israel was too small for hte graphic to fit. Second of all, Israeli, India and Pakistan <span class="caps">HAVE NOT </span>signed the <span class="caps">NPT </span>and are therefore not doing anything illegal. </p>

<p>Iran, however, has signed the <span class="caps">NPT </span>yet has not been forthcoming about its nuclear program. If you actually are familiar with and have read the <span class="caps">NPT, </span>you&#8217;ll surely know Iran like every other <span class="caps">NPT </span>signatory has the legal right to peaceful nuclear energy. The US government and EU have both acknowledged this before. It is <span class="caps">NOT </span>the issue.</p>

<p>The issue is that Iran has not been completely open about its program, has been found to be in noncompliance by the <span class="caps">IAEA </span>and <span class="caps">UNSC </span>(1747). In addition, it continues its ballistic missile program and was exposed as customer of the AQ Khan network (who also supplied Libya and North Korea). </p>

<p>Moreover, it&#8217;s diplomatic record is clear. Negotiate, stall for time, proceed with its program, comply with legal requirements and pretend that it is a voluntary measure of good faith instead of a legal obligation, then repeat.</p>

<p>All of this makes it very clear Iran <em>likely</em> has an illicit nuclear weapons program.  </p>

<p>If Iran withdraws from the <span class="caps">NPT, </span>as members are allowed to do with 90 days notice, then it will not be breaking any laws. But as long as it is an <span class="caps">NPT </span>member, it must follow them.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mojgan</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/02/14/the-nuclear-iran-world/comment-page-1/#comment-388267</link>
		<dc:creator>Mojgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 19:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=4817#comment-388267</guid>
		<description>Mmmm, interesting that no one is pointing to the other two nuclear powers in Middle East , Israel and Pakistan , and blaming them for the desire that Iran &quot;MAY&quot; have for nuclear weapon nor is blaming them for nuclear arm race in the region and Iran&#039;s desire  . Iran is well within her legal rights to have nuclear &quot;energy &quot; and is the &quot;ONLY&quot; country in the world that has allowed extensive inspection of it&#039;s nuclear plants by IAEA. 

Why don&#039;t we just ask Israel and Pakistan to destroy their nuclear weapons and make the region a nuclear free zone ?!! Oh , sorry , I just remembered ,Israel is the ONLY country in the middle east that is against this Idea .

Also Munro Ferguson should be reminded that Arabs have nothing to worry about since Pakistan is a &quot;Sunni &quot; fanatic state and their nuclear industry was developed with  &quot;Sunni&quot;  SAUDI  financing  . Surely Pakistan has the &quot;Sunni Arabs &quot;under it&#039;s nuclear umbrella against the &quot;Shiaa&quot; Iran  .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mmmm, interesting that no one is pointing to the other two nuclear powers in Middle East , Israel and Pakistan , and blaming them for the desire that Iran &#8220;MAY&#8221; have for nuclear weapon nor is blaming them for nuclear arm race in the region and Iran&#8217;s desire  . Iran is well within her legal rights to have nuclear &#8220;energy &#8221; and is the &#8220;ONLY&#8221; country in the world that has allowed extensive inspection of it&#8217;s nuclear plants by <span class="caps">IAEA. </span></p>

<p>Why don&#8217;t we just ask Israel and Pakistan to destroy their nuclear weapons and make the region a nuclear free zone ?!! Oh , sorry , I just remembered ,Israel is the <span class="caps">ONLY </span>country in the middle east that is against this Idea .</p>

<p>Also Munro Ferguson should be reminded that Arabs have nothing to worry about since Pakistan is a &#8220;Sunni &#8221; fanatic state and their nuclear industry was developed with  &#8220;Sunni&#8221;  <span class="caps">SAUDI  </span>financing  . Surely Pakistan has the &#8220;Sunni Arabs &#8220;under it&#8217;s nuclear umbrella against the &#8220;Shiaa&#8221; Iran  .</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ElamBend</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/02/14/the-nuclear-iran-world/comment-page-1/#comment-388258</link>
		<dc:creator>ElamBend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 01:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=4817#comment-388258</guid>
		<description>I agree with M-F.  I can imagine that Saudi Agents are courting Dr. AQ Khan right now.  As well as the NK regime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with M-F.  I can imagine that Saudi Agents are courting Dr. AQ Khan right now.  As well as the NK regime.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Munro Ferguson</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/02/14/the-nuclear-iran-world/comment-page-1/#comment-388257</link>
		<dc:creator>Munro Ferguson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 00:56:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=4817#comment-388257</guid>
		<description>I think Israel will likely prove the end to any Iranian nuke proliferation before it attains delivery status. Especially given the recent election results.

Beyond that, assuming Iran does attain a nuke and delivery capability I&#039;d say Pandora&#039;s box is open. Excepting military action, it&#039;s hard to imagine a successful diplomatic effort that convinces the Arab states to not proliferate in an attempt to equalize Persian supremacy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Israel will likely prove the end to any Iranian nuke proliferation before it attains delivery status. Especially given the recent election results.</p>

<p>Beyond that, assuming Iran does attain a nuke and delivery capability I&#8217;d say Pandora&#8217;s box is open. Excepting military action, it&#8217;s hard to imagine a successful diplomatic effort that convinces the Arab states to not proliferate in an attempt to equalize Persian supremacy.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Alfred Russel Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2009/02/14/the-nuclear-iran-world/comment-page-1/#comment-388255</link>
		<dc:creator>Alfred Russel Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:53:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/?p=4817#comment-388255</guid>
		<description>Syria seemed to have rather shorter-term plans than you imply here...  On the other hand, its hard to see Norway doing anything silly.....
If we are to do anything serious about minimizing fossil fuel use, we will have to go nuclear for electricity.... and so will everyone else. If we could be sure the Iranians really were trying to make power, not bombs, we could applaud their efforts. Alas, their credibility is not very high...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Syria seemed to have rather shorter-term plans than you imply here&#8230;  On the other hand, its hard to see Norway doing anything silly&#8230;..<br />
If we are to do anything serious about minimizing fossil fuel use, we will have to go nuclear for electricity&#8230;. and so will everyone else. If we could be sure the Iranians really were trying to make power, not bombs, we could applaud their efforts. Alas, their credibility is not very high&#8230;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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