Comments on: The prince and the pastor http://cominganarchy.com/2008/12/20/the-prince-and-the-pastor/ Speak Victorian, Think Pagan Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:57:39 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: jerseyguy http://cominganarchy.com/2008/12/20/the-prince-and-the-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-386973 jerseyguy Sun, 21 Dec 2008 16:58:02 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/?p=4199#comment-386973 Once elected every politician starts thinking about how to win the next election. If he ran as a leftist, he'll throw some meat to the right and vice versa. It's a much simpler model than Machiavellian: "It's all about the next election, stupid." Most importantly, it's been confirmed many times by the post-election behavior of both libs & conservs. Once elected every politician starts thinking about how to win the next election. If he ran as a leftist, he’ll throw some meat to the right and vice versa. It’s a much simpler model than Machiavellian: “It’s all about the next election, stupid.” Most importantly, it’s been confirmed many times by the post-election behavior of both libs & conservs.

]]> By: tdaxp http://cominganarchy.com/2008/12/20/the-prince-and-the-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-386969 tdaxp Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:30:58 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/?p=4199#comment-386969 It is Machiavellian, and Curzon describes some of the reasons why. Machiavelli urged to be suspicious of those who supported your rise, and depend on those who opposed you, as the first as friends of the status quo, and the second are malcontents. It's a smart way to form a dynasty -- ally with all those who hate the old regime on the way out, and then once you're in power, your rolodex turns into the list of enemies you have to castrate. It is Machiavellian, and Curzon describes some of the reasons why.

Machiavelli urged to be suspicious of those who supported your rise, and depend on those who opposed you, as the first as friends of the status quo, and the second are malcontents.

It’s a smart way to form a dynasty — ally with all those who hate the old regime on the way out, and then once you’re in power, your rolodex turns into the list of enemies you have to castrate.

]]> By: Curzon http://cominganarchy.com/2008/12/20/the-prince-and-the-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-386962 Curzon Sun, 21 Dec 2008 06:11:17 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/?p=4199#comment-386962 I don't think there's anything Machiavellian here, and the announcement was pretty predictable. There are two things going on here, neither of which I see discussed in your post. The first is that Obama has been very clear that he opposes gay marriage, and with the exception of some issues with regards to race, Obama is not liberal on social policy. Indeed, Proposition 8 in California probably passed because of all the conservative Black and Latino Americans that got out to vote for him. The second issue is that, even if Obama does aid the gay rights cause, he wants to make sure he doesn't get into the "gays in the military" push that hurt Clinton's administration. His entire post-election strategy has been telling liberals to shove it and not define his administration. By no means is this an offer for Warren to get on board. Indeed, the risk here is all Obama's, not Warren's. I don’t think there’s anything Machiavellian here, and the announcement was pretty predictable. There are two things going on here, neither of which I see discussed in your post. The first is that Obama has been very clear that he opposes gay marriage, and with the exception of some issues with regards to race, Obama is not liberal on social policy. Indeed, Proposition 8 in California probably passed because of all the conservative Black and Latino Americans that got out to vote for him. The second issue is that, even if Obama does aid the gay rights cause, he wants to make sure he doesn’t get into the “gays in the military” push that hurt Clinton’s administration. His entire post-election strategy has been telling liberals to shove it and not define his administration. By no means is this an offer for Warren to get on board. Indeed, the risk here is all Obama’s, not Warren’s.

]]> By: Joe Jones http://cominganarchy.com/2008/12/20/the-prince-and-the-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-386956 Joe Jones Sat, 20 Dec 2008 23:14:02 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/?p=4199#comment-386956 There are many red-state "bitters" who are paranoid about LGBTs and "pro-gays" taking over the country to the exclusion of religious conservatives. Obama really has to keep this rift as closed as possible if he wants to stabilize the political environment in Washington. There are many red-state “bitters” who are paranoid about LGBTs and “pro-gays” taking over the country to the exclusion of religious conservatives. Obama really has to keep this rift as closed as possible if he wants to stabilize the political environment in Washington.

]]> By: Lexington Green http://cominganarchy.com/2008/12/20/the-prince-and-the-pastor/comment-page-1/#comment-386954 Lexington Green Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:48:01 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/?p=4199#comment-386954 Good assessment. Obama is trying to capture as much of the center as possible. This is a smart move. The gay rights issue is a vote loser. Obama knows that. The people who are energized by it have no place else to go, so he can do this, and they have to choke it down What he will do is make centrist gestures, while rewarding his supporters quietly. Obama is good at this kind of thing. He coopts his enemies, makes public gestures of openness, then he quietly works his actual agenda. Good assessment. Obama is trying to capture as much of the center as possible. This is a smart move. The gay rights issue is a vote loser. Obama knows that. The people who are energized by it have no place else to go, so he can do this, and they have to choke it down What he will do is make centrist gestures, while rewarding his supporters quietly. Obama is good at this kind of thing. He coopts his enemies, makes public gestures of openness, then he quietly works his actual agenda.

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