Comments on: A call for a different kind of don’t ask don’t tell

By: Lirelou

Lirelou — Wed, 03 Dec 2008 17:46:56 +0000

I should have mentioned that the U.S. military might be better served of all Chaplains were enlisted/warrant ranks, as in the French Army. And to EJW: Yes, and the Army actually has a Buddhist chaplain (as well as Muslim chaplains). That position existed for quite some time before it was filled. It is my understanding that certification was the initial problem. And I have attended Buddhist services in a U.S. military chapel, conducted by a Hungarian Monk from a Korean order brought on base by the Catholic and Protestant chaplains.

By: ejw

ejw — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:40:11 +0000

US armed forces chaplains are responsible for more than leading divine services; they play an important role in counseling and have a lead role in the US military’s suicide prevention programs. I read the slides, and, while it would have been painful to sit through, I didn’t perceive them to be as overtly evangelical as some of the stuff I’ve seen US Army chaplains come up with. This chaplain merely re-worked a philosophy (i.e., a purpose-driven life) into a hypothesis that servicemembers who have a purpose won’t kill themselves. Now, I would dispute this hypothesis, but I’ll give the chaplain the benefit of the doubt. (By way of background, I’m a US Army officer and a Buddhist.)

By: Lirelou

Lirelou — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:23:35 +0000

There are plenty of Buddhists in the military, but nowhere near their numbers in the population at large. For serious Buddhists, military service in anything but the medical or some other non-combat specialty poses a potential crisis of faith. This may keep many of the more committed Buddhists out. The majority I’ve known are lay Buddhists, but occasionally a truly committed Buddhist will show up. Here, you have to look at the ethnic composition of the American Buddhist community, which is mostly Asian, and look at the values of the cultural communities that comprise “Asians”. Korean-Americans appear to be the majority of Asians in service, but a great many of those are Christian. Chinese and Japanese Americans do produce some fine professional soldiers, but their communities are largely composed of people oriented to other professions. The military likewise has Hindus and Sikhs, but again the numbers are small, reflecting the recent nature of Indian immigration, and cultural class values that impact upon how members view military service. Thus, though I don’t know the figures, I would be willing to bet that the majority of Indians serving in the military are either Sikhs, or belong to one of the suncontinent’s other “martial races”. Those I have known in service all came from Sikh, Punjabi, and Goan families.

By: McKellar

McKellar — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 13:13:56 +0000

With the statistics, I think 18-39 is too broad of an age group to mean anything. Religious attendance/affiliation tends to drop in the gap between young adult leaving their natal homes and then starting families (and marrying religious spouses), so 18-25 might be a better group for comparison.

Military service requires the diversity of our nation to live and work in close proximity with one another, not as a collection of individuals but as a bonded, cohesive unit, so being a minority becomes a lot tougher. Look at the spike in that last row, the “don’t know/refused.” That’s the don’t ask/don’t tell column, the people who are different but have to put those differences aside, hiding them, in order to be good soldiers. So the question is, should we be asking the Evangelicals to make the same sacrifice, and be secular soldiers, or do we let our military become dominated by Evangelical voices? Didn’t the Romans try that once?

By: Younghusband

Younghusband — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 06:45:57 +0000

According to that Heritage Foundation report US soldiers are more educated and come from better backgrounds than most people think. I think this reflects the shift of all western militaries towards a more educated base. You have to be smart to operate all that high tech equipment and be educated enough to make teh moral decisions of a strategic corporal. Of course, there will always be the economically disadvantage in the ranks, but that was the same reason I entered university.

By: jim

jim — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 05:23:12 +0000

Good point. Jews are concentrated in the Northeast. Other immigrants are arriving in the traditional big city gateways. Which are dominated by Democrats.

Still, a fair question is why are those regions so hostile to the military?

I do think this is a problem that our coastal elites do not participate in the military. The people who do the best in our society are the least likely to join, or have their children join, or know anybody who joined the military.

I say this as someone from a midwestern Democratic Irish-Catholic family. The older generations were union Dems and many spent some time in the military. Some did well and went to college and did even better after.

The richest of my relatives have adult kids who are “Progressives”. They went to great colleges, studied overseas, and have great careers. They also totally look down upon the military. At best they have pity for military members — for not having any better options — at worst they have contempt.

My Progressive cousins are now starting families and picking out Montessori schools — they would be just horrified if any of their kids ever joined the military.

It just seems unhealthy that the upper class thinks the military is beneath them.

By: Younghusband

Younghusband — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 02:20:07 +0000

Jim, I tried to find some better numbers of religion in the US military but this chart was all I could get. Also, rather than income, I think it is a function of location. Take a look at this demographic report that shows that most military members come from the heavily from the South and Midwest, not a big area for Jews, Buddhists or Hindus. The report also shows the following:

U.S. military service disproportionately attracts enlisted personnel and officers who do not come from disadvantaged background
Members … more likely to come from high-income neighborhoods than from low-income neighborhoods
American soldiers are more educated than their peers
minorities are not overrepresented in military service

By: jim

jim — Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:12:01 +0000

Also, what counts as “other Christian”? Mormons? Non-denominational churches? (I always interpreted the non-denominational churches as sort of generic Protestant. But then I grew up Catholic.)

By: jim

jim — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 22:16:07 +0000

Although it’s probably a function of income, I find it a bit disturbing how few non-Christians serve in the military. America has been the primary protector of the Jewish people for 50 years now. Buddhist and Hindu immigrants are perhaps more recent, but seems to show a similar unwillingness to defend America.

By: kurt9

kurt9 — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:56:22 +0000

It is said that there are no atheists in foxholes. That it takes a certain measure of faith to go forth into a battlefield risking death or dismemberment to do battle. It is therefor expected that our fighting men will have a bit more faith than the average civilian.

It is well-known that the Air Force academy in Colorado Springs has been a hot-bed of christian evangelicalism. Think of it as the christian equivalent of the Islamic-driven ISI of Pakistan.

By: Ralph Hitchens

Ralph Hitchens — Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:01:03 +0000

This is astounding, and thanks for posting it. I can’t imagine how any senior officer in my old service would approve such a presentation under the auspices of anything official.

That said, I think it’s over the line to characterize Rick Warren as “odious.” While he is certainly an icon to Protestants of the more evangelical persuasion, his flagship book has found broad acceptance within the diverse Protestant community in the US. I don’t think anyone would consider him to be morally deceitful or a slave to money, as all too many evangelists have proven to be.