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	<title>Comments on: Impolitical&#160;science</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/</link>
	<description>Speak Victorian, Think Pagan</description>
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		<title>By: Yours Truly</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/comment-page-1/#comment-385378</link>
		<dc:creator>Yours Truly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 13:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/#comment-385378</guid>
		<description>To Selil :

I know very little &#039;bout science or engineering. Math is beyond yours truly (can&#039;t count beyond a hundred thousand). But if this is the rate the U.S. of A is goin&#039;, it&#039;s gonna be a real disaster for Americans in the long run. 

Scenario : what if a major no. of math &amp; physics guys from India &amp; china were to leave the U.S.? What then? The U.S. is NOT the only place where they can make their green, no matter how absurd the notion of above scenario.

Just my two cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Selil :</p>

<p>I know very little &#8217;bout science or engineering. Math is beyond yours truly (can&#8217;t count beyond a hundred thousand). But if this is the rate the <span class="caps">U.S. </span>of A is goin&#8217;, it&#8217;s gonna be a real disaster for Americans in the long run. </p>

<p>Scenario : what if a major no. of math &amp; physics guys from India &amp; china were to leave the <span class="caps">U.S.</span>? What then? The <span class="caps">U.S. </span>is <span class="caps">NOT </span>the only place where they can make their green, no matter how absurd the notion of above scenario.</p>

<p>Just my two cents.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: tdaxp</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/comment-page-1/#comment-385224</link>
		<dc:creator>tdaxp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 15:18:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/#comment-385224</guid>
		<description>Obama&#039;s answered displayed a 19th century view of science.  They were very disturbing.

http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2008/09/01/obamas-19th-century-view-of-science-and-technology.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obama&#8217;s answered displayed a 19th century view of science.  They were very disturbing.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2008/09/01/obamas-19th-century-view-of-science-and-technology.html">http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2008/09/01/obamas-19th-century-view-of-science-and-technology.html</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Younghusband</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/comment-page-1/#comment-385204</link>
		<dc:creator>Younghusband</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 07:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/#comment-385204</guid>
		<description>Thanks for that DJ, that does make me feel better. I would like to point out that:

bq. Members of the state school board, which sets minimum requirements, are *appointed by the governor* and confirmed by the Legislature.

[my emphasis] and:

bq. The Republican Party of Alaska platform says, in its section on education: &quot;We support giving Creation Science equal representation with other theories of the origin of life. If evolution is taught, it should be presented as only a theory.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for that <span class="caps">DJ, </span>that does make me feel better. I would like to point out that:</p>

<blockquote><p>Members of the state school board, which sets minimum requirements, are <strong>appointed by the governor</strong> and confirmed by the Legislature.</p></blockquote>

<p>[my emphasis] and:</p>

<blockquote><p>The Republican Party of Alaska platform says, in its section on education: &#8220;We support giving Creation Science equal representation with other theories of the origin of life. If evolution is taught, it should be presented as only a theory.&#8221;</p></blockquote>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: DJ</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/comment-page-1/#comment-385200</link>
		<dc:creator>DJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 06:47:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/#comment-385200</guid>
		<description>Younghusband, that wired article is incorrect. Palin does not support banning creationism. She supports allowing schools and communities to teach both if they choose. She is on record saying she would never force anyone to teach it.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31088_Sarah_Palin_and_Creationism/comments/

Wired choose to quote her out of context. Not a surprise considering the editorial slant of that organization.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Younghusband, that wired article is incorrect. Palin does not support banning creationism. She supports allowing schools and communities to teach both if they choose. She is on record saying she would never force anyone to teach it.</p>

<p><a href="http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31088_Sarah_Palin_and_Creationism/comments/">http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/31088_Sarah_Palin_and_Creationism/comments/</a></p>

<p>Wired choose to quote her out of context. Not a surprise considering the editorial slant of that organization.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Younghusband</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/comment-page-1/#comment-385195</link>
		<dc:creator>Younghusband</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 05:50:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/#comment-385195</guid>
		<description>Via Slashdot I just saw this interview from NPR two weeks ago:

&quot;Candidates Vow To Keep Politics Out Of Science&quot;:http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93539298</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Via Slashdot I just saw this interview from <span class="caps">NPR </span>two weeks ago:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93539298">Candidates Vow To Keep Politics Out Of Science</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Younghusband</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/comment-page-1/#comment-385194</link>
		<dc:creator>Younghusband</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 05:44:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/#comment-385194</guid>
		<description>&quot;Obama just answered&quot;:http://sharp.sefora.org/people/presidential-candidates/barack-obama-presidential-candidate/ the policy questionnaire from ScienceDebate 2008. More at &quot;Slashdot&quot;:http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/31/167244&amp;from=rss.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://sharp.sefora.org/people/presidential-candidates/barack-obama-presidential-candidate/">Obama just answered</a> the policy questionnaire from ScienceDebate 2008. More at <a href="http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08%2F08%2F31%2F167244&amp;%23038;from=rss">Slashdot</a>.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Selil</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/comment-page-1/#comment-385136</link>
		<dc:creator>Selil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 16:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/#comment-385136</guid>
		<description>As well as myself with a BA, and BS, and my spouse with a MA, MS. There is so much that can be done, and woefully little that has been done. My hope is that authors such as yourself and others create a memetic event horizon to push this idea as a grass roots change since political leadership seems woefully incompetent. 

I keep hoping that as the Lions of academia find hallowed ground in retirement there may be hope to bring change to the University, the k-12 education system and the governmental processes. I was hoping that this election cycle would bring a visionary to the oval office, but the expediency of meeting the fundamentalist bread bowl politics of the electorate can not be ignored by either party. In reality it is as much a people problem as it is a politician problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As well as myself with a <span class="caps">BA, </span>and <span class="caps">BS, </span>and my spouse with a <span class="caps">MA, MS.</span> There is so much that can be done, and woefully little that has been done. My hope is that authors such as yourself and others create a memetic event horizon to push this idea as a grass roots change since political leadership seems woefully incompetent. </p>

<p>I keep hoping that as the Lions of academia find hallowed ground in retirement there may be hope to bring change to the University, the k-12 education system and the governmental processes. I was hoping that this election cycle would bring a visionary to the oval office, but the expediency of meeting the fundamentalist bread bowl politics of the electorate can not be ignored by either party. In reality it is as much a people problem as it is a politician problem.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Younghusband</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/comment-page-1/#comment-385129</link>
		<dc:creator>Younghusband</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 15:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/#comment-385129</guid>
		<description>Thanks selil, I was hoping an educator like you or Mark would stop by.

bq. American students exiting the k-12 system are woefully unprepared. 

Absolutely agree with that. Also, from &quot;your post&quot;:http://selil.com/?p=162:

bq. I have met many junior faculty and professionals who have a master’s degree in a liberal art and another masters degree in a science or engineering discipline. These are the hope of Lazarus rising and the rebirth of the Renaissance man. Yet in academia they are pushed aside as not having focus or depth. 

You describe me. Though I don&#039;t think specialization is what has killed the education system, I do think there is a lack of interdisciplinary work done (and I don&#039;t mean there should be more &quot;Interdisciplinary Studies&quot; courses for undergrads).

Anywho... thinking about science in national politics.

Japan is an example of a country where science has been at the forefront of politics. For example, after the Taepodong Shock, Japan rushed to get its own satellites in orbit. During the oil crises of the 1970s Japan began a national effort to move from “energy-intensive” industry to “knowledge-intensive” industry: “Instead of using the resources in the ground, we [will] use the resources in our head.”

From these examples we can see the common factor is crisis. For the US I think the economy, energy and the environment all count.

With the stability of the 1990s America became complacent, distracted by the culture wars while Chinese and Indian exchange students used the advanced American university education system.

The US needs a leader like Reagan or JFK to spark interest in science once again. It doesn&#039;t look like Obama or McCain are going to be that leader.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks selil, I was hoping an educator like you or Mark would stop by.</p>

<blockquote><p>American students exiting the k-12 system are woefully unprepared. </p></blockquote>

<p>Absolutely agree with that. Also, from <a href="http://selil.com/?p=162">your post</a>:</p>

<blockquote><p>I have met many junior faculty and professionals who have a master&acirc;s degree in a liberal art and another masters degree in a science or engineering discipline. These are the hope of Lazarus rising and the rebirth of the Renaissance man. Yet in academia they are pushed aside as not having focus or depth. </p></blockquote>

<p>You describe me. Though I don&#8217;t think specialization is what has killed the education system, I do think there is a lack of interdisciplinary work done (and I don&#8217;t mean there should be more &#8220;Interdisciplinary Studies&#8221; courses for undergrads).</p>

<p>Anywho&#8230; thinking about science in national politics.</p>

<p>Japan is an example of a country where science has been at the forefront of politics. For example, after the Taepodong Shock, Japan rushed to get its own satellites in orbit. During the oil crises of the 1970s Japan began a national effort to move from &acirc;energy-intensive&acirc; industry to &acirc;knowledge-intensive&acirc; industry: &acirc;Instead of using the resources in the ground, we [will] use the resources in our head.&acirc;</p>

<p>From these examples we can see the common factor is crisis. For the US I think the economy, energy and the environment all count.</p>

<p>With the stability of the 1990s America became complacent, distracted by the culture wars while Chinese and Indian exchange students used the advanced American university education system.</p>

<p>The US needs a leader like Reagan or <span class="caps">JFK </span>to spark interest in science once again. It doesn&#8217;t look like Obama or McCain are going to be that leader.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Selil</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/comment-page-1/#comment-385121</link>
		<dc:creator>Selil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/#comment-385121</guid>
		<description>Science, technology, engineering and math as silos of the University education system continue to be eroded by  little to no interest by American high schoolers. The American University education system unlike about any other country on the planet is competitive at an international level. NO, other country has the preponderance of foreign students that are found in the American system. This is not necessarily bad. It creates some of the best students in the world.

The issues are that American students exiting the k-12 system are woefully unprepared. The National Academies of Science have prepared and delivered dozens of documents on how to fix this problem. From political solutions with no cost, to extravagant dismantling of the mega-school, to curricula change with little response. Unfortunately like some economists would say the school systems are compensated or incentivized to maintain the status quo. 

Neither candidate or party has a real platform for science. Senator McCain has been uninterested in discussing science as it might disrupt his &quot;evolution&quot; constituency. In a specific case Senator Obama visited a University to discuss cyber space security and &quot;forgot&quot; to even invite the resident world expert and advisor to the last three presidents. Instead filling his panel with political hacks and henchmen. 

The have a phrase to describe when religious fervance creates a period of intolerance and intellectual despotism is cloaked in the abject respectability of fear and loathing. We have entered the intellectual dark ages and the first casualty in this remarkable dimming of the information enlightenment period is the foundations and considerations of science, technology, engineering and math. 

For your consideration http://selil.com/?p=162</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Science, technology, engineering and math as silos of the University education system continue to be eroded by  little to no interest by American high schoolers. The American University education system unlike about any other country on the planet is competitive at an international level. <span class="caps">NO, </span>other country has the preponderance of foreign students that are found in the American system. This is not necessarily bad. It creates some of the best students in the world.</p>

<p>The issues are that American students exiting the k-12 system are woefully unprepared. The National Academies of Science have prepared and delivered dozens of documents on how to fix this problem. From political solutions with no cost, to extravagant dismantling of the mega-school, to curricula change with little response. Unfortunately like some economists would say the school systems are compensated or incentivized to maintain the status quo. </p>

<p>Neither candidate or party has a real platform for science. Senator McCain has been uninterested in discussing science as it might disrupt his &#8220;evolution&#8221; constituency. In a specific case Senator Obama visited a University to discuss cyber space security and &#8220;forgot&#8221; to even invite the resident world expert and advisor to the last three presidents. Instead filling his panel with political hacks and henchmen. </p>

<p>The have a phrase to describe when religious fervance creates a period of intolerance and intellectual despotism is cloaked in the abject respectability of fear and loathing. We have entered the intellectual dark ages and the first casualty in this remarkable dimming of the information enlightenment period is the foundations and considerations of science, technology, engineering and math. </p>

<p>For your consideration <a href="http://selil.com/?p=162" rel="nofollow">http://selil.com/?p=162</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ElamBend</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/comment-page-1/#comment-385120</link>
		<dc:creator>ElamBend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 13:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/#comment-385120</guid>
		<description>There is more interest in technology than for science from the public, gadgets over ideas.

It could also be that the nations decision makers aren&#039;t making a good enough &quot;sell&quot; on such things.

In the universities, the majority of engineering majors, take lucrative jobs after earning their bachelors and then never pursue their Masters or Phds.  

Finally, don&#039;t forget, there are many viable private space programs occurring right now.  Perhaps, they are the preferred way forward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is more interest in technology than for science from the public, gadgets over ideas.</p>

<p>It could also be that the nations decision makers aren&#8217;t making a good enough &#8220;sell&#8221; on such things.</p>

<p>In the universities, the majority of engineering majors, take lucrative jobs after earning their bachelors and then never pursue their Masters or Phds.  </p>

<p>Finally, don&#8217;t forget, there are many viable private space programs occurring right now.  Perhaps, they are the preferred way forward.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/comment-page-1/#comment-385105</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 09:45:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cominganarchy.com/2008/08/31/impolitical-science/#comment-385105</guid>
		<description>Rational decision-making based on evidence doesn&#039;t appeal to religious voters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rational decision-making based on evidence doesn&#8217;t appeal to religious voters.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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