Comments on: The Principles of War: 1. Selection and Maintenance of the Aim http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/ Speak Victorian, Think Pagan Fri, 09 Jan 2009 00:01:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7 hourly 1 By: Oliver http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/comment-page-1/#comment-383979 Oliver Wed, 28 May 2008 15:59:58 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/#comment-383979 This depends on your aims. If you aim to occupy and settle your enemy's homeland, good luck with that approach. This depends on your aims. If you aim to occupy and settle your enemy’s homeland, good luck with that approach.

]]> By: Joe Jones http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/comment-page-1/#comment-383971 Joe Jones Wed, 28 May 2008 03:39:12 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/#comment-383971 "Will, as a mental ability, is in principle outside external influence." If only it were... “Will, as a mental ability, is in principle outside external influence.”
If only it were…

]]> By: Michael http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/comment-page-1/#comment-383966 Michael Tue, 27 May 2008 23:26:12 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/#comment-383966 That's where it comes back to the question of aims. As you've said, Joe, there's no way short of annihilation to completely eliminate an enemy's ability to fight. One can, however, eliminate the portion of their ability that allows them to oppose your aims. That’s where it comes back to the question of aims. As you’ve said, Joe, there’s no way short of annihilation to completely eliminate an enemy’s ability to fight. One can, however, eliminate the portion of their ability that allows them to oppose your aims.

]]> By: Oliver http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/comment-page-1/#comment-383962 Oliver Tue, 27 May 2008 14:03:29 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/#comment-383962 Third Punic War, maybe the fall of Constantinople. Will, as a mental ability, is in principle outside external influence. If the enemy does not wish to give up, you will have to go to elimination. Third Punic War, maybe the fall of Constantinople.

Will, as a mental ability, is in principle outside external influence. If the enemy does not wish to give up, you will have to go to elimination.

]]> By: Joe Jones http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/comment-page-1/#comment-383959 Joe Jones Tue, 27 May 2008 02:03:34 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/#comment-383959 Can anyone think of an instance where an enemy's capability to fight was really broken? I'm going through various scenarios in my head, and (short of genocide) I don't see how you can effectively break the capability to fight. It's just too easy to fight: it doesn't require much in the way of equipment, just a lot of will and "destructive creativity." I'm not saying you can't eliminate an enemy's capability to, say, project naval power or nuke a continent. That's obviously doable. But a person with sufficient will can fight to the death, regardless of which weapons you take away, and in this age they have more and more insidious ways to do so. I think that supports the general notion that you want to break their will, not their capability (keeping in mind that breaking capability can be an important step in breaking will). Can anyone think of an instance where an enemy’s capability to fight was really broken? I’m going through various scenarios in my head, and (short of genocide) I don’t see how you can effectively break the capability to fight. It’s just too easy to fight: it doesn’t require much in the way of equipment, just a lot of will and “destructive creativity.”

I’m not saying you can’t eliminate an enemy’s capability to, say, project naval power or nuke a continent. That’s obviously doable. But a person with sufficient will can fight to the death, regardless of which weapons you take away, and in this age they have more and more insidious ways to do so. I think that supports the general notion that you want to break their will, not their capability (keeping in mind that breaking capability can be an important step in breaking will).

]]> By: purpleslog http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/comment-page-1/#comment-383929 purpleslog Sat, 24 May 2008 17:24:57 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/#comment-383929 Ralph...okay you have either: 1) broken the will of the enemy to fight (the principle of the post) 2) broken the enemy’s capability to fight (mentioned in your comment) Then what? There is a something else comes next. That something else is the aim. BTW, points (1) and (2) above are not the same thing. Ralph…okay you have either:

1) broken the will of the enemy to fight (the principle of the post)
2) broken the enemy’s capability to fight (mentioned in your comment)

Then what?

There is a something else comes next. That something else is the aim.

BTW, points (1) and (2) above are not the same thing.

]]> By: Michael http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/comment-page-1/#comment-383922 Michael Sat, 24 May 2008 03:53:19 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/#comment-383922 I have to agree with Purpleslog. In the case of GWOT, the reason we wish to reduce the enemy's capability to fight is their demonstrable desire to use that ability against us. If they did not have that desire which- obviously- they are disinclined to give up, we would not have a reason to reduce their capability. That said, it's always possible for an entity to have more ends than are revealed--all of which effect the means being used. I have to agree with Purpleslog. In the case of GWOT, the reason we wish to reduce the enemy’s capability to fight is their demonstrable desire to use that ability against us. If they did not have that desire which- obviously- they are disinclined to give up, we would not have a reason to reduce their capability.

That said, it’s always possible for an entity to have more ends than are revealed—all of which effect the means being used.

]]> By: Ralph Hitchens http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/comment-page-1/#comment-383911 Ralph Hitchens Fri, 23 May 2008 13:27:48 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/#comment-383911 I disagree with purpleslog, it surely is an end rather than a means, but begs the question of whether it is an achievable end in all circumstances. I think breaking the enemy's capability to fight might be the ultimate aim in many cases. Like, say, the GWOT. I disagree with purpleslog, it surely is an end rather than a means, but begs the question of whether it is an achievable end in all circumstances. I think breaking the enemy’s capability to fight might be the ultimate aim in many cases. Like, say, the GWOT.

]]> By: purpleslog http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/comment-page-1/#comment-383904 purpleslog Thu, 22 May 2008 23:18:43 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/#comment-383904 "break the enemy’s will to fight" This sounds like a possible "means", not an "ends" to me. The aim/ends of war is get your adversary to do something they would not otherwise do. “break the enemy’s will to fight”

This sounds like a possible “means”, not an “ends” to me.

The aim/ends of war is get your adversary to do something they would not otherwise do.

]]> By: Younghusband http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/comment-page-1/#comment-383903 Younghusband Thu, 22 May 2008 19:53:53 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/#comment-383903 Well, this one is pretty obvious. However, the "ultimate aim" mentioned above could be argued. Clausewitz said "your sole purpose is to bend the enemy to your will," which is nice and vague. Your enemy does not even have to give up his will to fight, if you are able to achieve your Aim. However, old Clausy also said: "The only sure way of obtaining this object is to destroy his armed forces." Depending on the time and the war, the "ultimate aim" may change, however the conduct of war still requires an aim or goal, possibly even moreso in this age of democracy and mass media. Well, this one is pretty obvious. However, the “ultimate aim” mentioned above could be argued. Clausewitz said “your sole purpose is to bend the enemy to your will,” which is nice and vague. Your enemy does not even have to give up his will to fight, if you are able to achieve your Aim. However, old Clausy also said: “The only sure way of obtaining this object is to destroy his armed forces.”

Depending on the time and the war, the “ultimate aim” may change, however the conduct of war still requires an aim or goal, possibly even moreso in this age of democracy and mass media.

]]> By: tdaxp » Blog Archive » 5GW / xGW around the blogosphere http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/comment-page-1/#comment-383894 tdaxp » Blog Archive » 5GW / xGW around the blogosphere Thu, 22 May 2008 03:49:43 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/05/21/the-principles-of-war-1-selection-and-maintenance-of-the-aim/#comment-383894 [...] at Coming Anarchy described war having “the ultimatum aim of having to break the enemy’s will to fight.” This definition defines 0GW (aimed at exterminating the enemy) and 5GW (aimed at preventing [...] [...] at Coming Anarchy described war having “the ultimatum aim of having to break the enemy’s will to fight.” This definition defines 0GW (aimed at exterminating the enemy) and 5GW (aimed at preventing [...]

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