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	<title>Comments on: Forecast: Gloom and&#160;Doom</title>
	<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/</link>
	<description>Speak Victorian, Think Pagan</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 20:22:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Amenazas y mercados &#187; Ecoperiodico</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381765</link>
		<dc:creator>Amenazas y mercados &#187; Ecoperiodico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jan 2008 13:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381765</guid>
		<description>[...] la amenaza de la guerra ciertamente produce muchos beneficios a algunos. Pero en el otro lado, vender la amenaza del medio ambiente también genera enormes beneficios, y no solo está bien visto, si no que el escenario de la lucha, y por tanto el mercado, es mucho [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] la amenaza de la guerra ciertamente produce muchos beneficios a algunos. Pero en el otro lado, vender la amenaza del medio ambiente tambi&#233;n genera enormes beneficios, y no solo est&#225; bien visto, si no que el escenario de la lucha, y por tanto el mercado, es mucho [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hancock</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381664</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hancock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381664</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Skeptical-Environmentalists-Global-Warming/dp/0307266923/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&#38;s=books&#38;qid=1200873561&#38;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow"&gt;Cool it.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Skeptical-Environmentalists-Global-Warming/dp/0307266923/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&#038;s=books&#038;qid=1200873561&#038;sr=8-1" rel="nofollow" onclick="javascript:urchinTracker ('/outbound/comment/www.amazon.com');">Cool it.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381648</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 04:34:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381648</guid>
		<description>“Modern mass political movements often have become cisterns for the religious fervor which has drained out of the traditional religions of the world. This is the source of much misery, since eschatological goals cannot be humanly achievable, only frustration and worse can result by attempting to achieve them.”

Assuming such religious fervor cannot be done away with altogether, what would the best (or least worst) place to put such energies?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Modern mass political movements often have become cisterns for the religious fervor which has drained out of the traditional religions of the world. This is the source of much misery, since eschatological goals cannot be humanly achievable, only frustration and worse can result by attempting to achieve them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Assuming such religious fervor cannot be done away with altogether, what would the best (or least worst) place to put such energies?</p>
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		<title>By: John Datson</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381647</link>
		<dc:creator>John Datson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 03:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381647</guid>
		<description>The real question is: Why are so many Americans in denial about the fact of global warming? Here we have a bunch of arrogant non-scientists who assume they know better than the vast majority of the world's climate scientists. 

I agree that there is a obsessive, quasi-religious irrationality to some of the rhetoric of certain persons, but Monte above has it right. The doomsday predictions may not come about, but mankind is slowly but surely changing the world in which he lives. The questions relating to the way in which this change will occur and what consequences it will hold for us cannot really be answered, but they must be asked, and not merely be swept under the carpet.

Let me ask you this: Given that climate change is a fact, and all prejudices aside, is it not better to proceed cautiously and try to mitigate/retard the changes that are probably coming, at least until we can really do something about them?
One can only assume that the posters above have not followed the scientific debate on climate change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real question is: Why are so many Americans in denial about the fact of global warming? Here we have a bunch of arrogant non-scientists who assume they know better than the vast majority of the world&#8217;s climate scientists.</p>
<p>I agree that there is a obsessive, quasi-religious irrationality to some of the rhetoric of certain persons, but Monte above has it right. The doomsday predictions may not come about, but mankind is slowly but surely changing the world in which he lives. The questions relating to the way in which this change will occur and what consequences it will hold for us cannot really be answered, but they must be asked, and not merely be swept under the carpet.</p>
<p>Let me ask you this: Given that climate change is a fact, and all prejudices aside, is it not better to proceed cautiously and try to mitigate/retard the changes that are probably coming, at least until we can really do something about them?<br />
One can only assume that the posters above have not followed the scientific debate on climate change.</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381644</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 20:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381644</guid>
		<description>I've still yet to see serious evidence presented that the costs of global warming will be very high. Or that the costs of preventing global warming would not be vastly higher than the costs of global warming. A cure worse than the poison is not sound policy.

Yes, I know Al Gore shows pictures of Manhattan underwater, but that was obvious nonsense. Mild temp rise and mild sea level rise will be adapted to and dealt with, just like in the past.

Kyoto was basically a joke, given that even incurring it's costs wouldn't do anything to affect global warming. 

It's all a show to gain political advantage. Nobody on the mainstream Left is willing to implement draconian enough policies to really effect global emissions.

All that's happened in the last two decades is 1) a lot of older Communist era plants in eastern europe have been shuttered and 2) the West has shifted a lot of dirtier manufacturing to China and the developing world.

We'll be fine. It's 98% nutter hype by the eco-crazies. Who don't even believe their own lies judging by how they live their life. Besides the core of the enviro ethic is deeply anti-human, anti-progress and basically evil. The enviros stand against practically everything good since the Enlightenment. It's a Rousseauian backlash against progress, technology, and modern civilization.

There's also a non-trivial watermelon factor. And the petty tyranny of the progressive busy-bodies.

The enviros do impressively unite most of the anti-human, anti-progress, anti-freedom forces in the world today. So that's something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve still yet to see serious evidence presented that the costs of global warming will be very high. Or that the costs of preventing global warming would not be vastly higher than the costs of global warming. A cure worse than the poison is not sound policy.</p>
<p>Yes, I know Al Gore shows pictures of Manhattan underwater, but that was obvious nonsense. Mild temp rise and mild sea level rise will be adapted to and dealt with, just like in the past.</p>
<p>Kyoto was basically a joke, given that even incurring it&#8217;s costs wouldn&#8217;t do anything to affect global warming.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all a show to gain political advantage. Nobody on the mainstream Left is willing to implement draconian enough policies to really effect global emissions.</p>
<p>All that&#8217;s happened in the last two decades is 1) a lot of older Communist era plants in eastern europe have been shuttered and 2) the West has shifted a lot of dirtier manufacturing to China and the developing world.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ll be fine. It&#8217;s 98% nutter hype by the eco-crazies. Who don&#8217;t even believe their own lies judging by how they live their life. Besides the core of the enviro ethic is deeply anti-human, anti-progress and basically evil. The enviros stand against practically everything good since the Enlightenment. It&#8217;s a Rousseauian backlash against progress, technology, and modern civilization.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s also a non-trivial watermelon factor. And the petty tyranny of the progressive busy-bodies.</p>
<p>The enviros do impressively unite most of the anti-human, anti-progress, anti-freedom forces in the world today. So that&#8217;s something.</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Una buena cr</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381640</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Una buena cr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 10:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381640</guid>
		<description>[...] d</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] d</p>
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		<title>By: Monte Davis</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381632</link>
		<dc:creator>Monte Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 18:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381632</guid>
		<description>Tierney's right: there's been a strong religious streak running through environmentalism since the first Earth Day, drawing in all kinds of "penitential" feelings: we're too numerous, too rich, too heedless, too corporate and globalized and oil-addicted, and nature (standing in for older deities) will surely punish us!

It would be nice if when you stripped all that away, there was nothing left to be concerned about: no hard core of         undisputed data and atmospheric physics, no consistently improving (if always imperfect) models and projections, no additional Germany's worth of coal power generation being added in China and India every year.

Unfortunately, the numbers don't care how many irrelevant culture-war arguments each side layers onto its position. They are what they are. They're changing in the direction they're changing. And they will continue to do so no matter how vehemently (or even accurately) anyone says "you're worried [or not worried] about the numbers for the *wrong reason.*"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tierney&#8217;s right: there&#8217;s been a strong religious streak running through environmentalism since the first Earth Day, drawing in all kinds of &#8220;penitential&#8221; feelings: we&#8217;re too numerous, too rich, too heedless, too corporate and globalized and oil-addicted, and nature (standing in for older deities) will surely punish us!</p>
<p>It would be nice if when you stripped all that away, there was nothing left to be concerned about: no hard core of         undisputed data and atmospheric physics, no consistently improving (if always imperfect) models and projections, no additional Germany&#8217;s worth of coal power generation being added in China and India every year.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the numbers don&#8217;t care how many irrelevant culture-war arguments each side layers onto its position. They are what they are. They&#8217;re changing in the direction they&#8217;re changing. And they will continue to do so no matter how vehemently (or even accurately) anyone says &#8220;you&#8217;re worried [or not worried] about the numbers for the <strong>wrong reason.</strong>&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: A.R.Yngve</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381626</link>
		<dc:creator>A.R.Yngve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381626</guid>
		<description>"There's been a storm in..."
&lt;i&gt;"Repent, sinners, the end is nigh!"&lt;/i&gt;

I had enough of doomsayers in the 1970s and 1980s. What was it they said again...? Oh yes: in the year 2000 the overpopulated Earth's population would starve to death while they were searcing for gasoline on the roads blocked by the glaciers of the new Ice Age, just before the super powers would unleash global nuclear war &lt;i&gt;for no reason whatsoever&lt;/i&gt;.

Or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There&#8217;s been a storm in&#8230;&#8221;<br />
<i>&#8220;Repent, sinners, the end is nigh!&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I had enough of doomsayers in the 1970s and 1980s. What was it they said again&#8230;? Oh yes: in the year 2000 the overpopulated Earth&#8217;s population would starve to death while they were searcing for gasoline on the roads blocked by the glaciers of the new Ice Age, just before the super powers would unleash global nuclear war <i>for no reason whatsoever</i>.</p>
<p>Or something.</p>
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		<title>By: ElamBend</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381621</link>
		<dc:creator>ElamBend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jan 2008 04:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381621</guid>
		<description>I have a friend that has worked within the international environmental movement for the last four years.  This has involved working with NGOs and national environmental ministries at the highest levels and he was pretty active in the coming together of the Montreal Protocol (which limits anti-ozone agents within existing laws, treaties, etc.).
I disagree with some (okay, a lot) of his environmental beliefs, but am subtle about my disagreement.  
He actually attended to the most recent conference at Bali and his unsolicited comments from that trip were enlightening.  Without prodding from me, he cast a very cynical tone on the whole venture.  His comments were along two lines:
a) many smaller, poorer countries had come to recognize the global warming movement as a chance to squeeze richer countries for money [in the form of development aid so that they can catch up to the first world in terms of low polution]
b) European countries were acting in a very cynical manner by casting the U.S. as the devil while not even living up to their own mandated Kyoto targets.

Finally, he expressed concern about the sheer number of people who showed up at the conference who were very 'fervent' about global warming, yet had very little conception of the science behind it.   That is to say it had become a movement and it disturbed him a little.

This phenomenon is quite succinctly summed up by Lexington Green "here":http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/12/19/world-peace.html#c1837340
"Modern mass political movements often have become cisterns for the religious fervor which has drained out of the traditional religions of the world. This is the source of much misery, since eschatological goals cannot be humanly achievable, only frustration and worse can result by attempting to achieve them."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a friend that has worked within the international environmental movement for the last four years.  This has involved working with NGOs and national environmental ministries at the highest levels and he was pretty active in the coming together of the Montreal Protocol (which limits anti-ozone agents within existing laws, treaties, etc.).<br />
I disagree with some (okay, a lot) of his environmental beliefs, but am subtle about my disagreement.<br />
He actually attended to the most recent conference at Bali and his unsolicited comments from that trip were enlightening.  Without prodding from me, he cast a very cynical tone on the whole venture.  His comments were along two lines:<br />
a) many smaller, poorer countries had come to recognize the global warming movement as a chance to squeeze richer countries for money [in the form of development aid so that they can catch up to the first world in terms of low polution]<br />
b) European countries were acting in a very cynical manner by casting the U.S. as the devil while not even living up to their own mandated Kyoto targets.</p>
<p>Finally, he expressed concern about the sheer number of people who showed up at the conference who were very &#8216;fervent&#8217; about global warming, yet had very little conception of the science behind it.   That is to say it had become a movement and it disturbed him a little.</p>
<p>This phenomenon is quite succinctly summed up by Lexington Green <a href="http://www.tdaxp.com/archive/2007/12/19/world-peace.html#c1837340" title="" onclick="javascript:urchinTracker ('/outbound/comment/www.tdaxp.com');">here</a><br />
&#8220;Modern mass political movements often have become cisterns for the religious fervor which has drained out of the traditional religions of the world. This is the source of much misery, since eschatological goals cannot be humanly achievable, only frustration and worse can result by attempting to achieve them.&#8221; </p>
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		<title>By: Trampa 22 :: El calentamiento global no será televisado :: January :: 2008</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381617</link>
		<dc:creator>Trampa 22 :: El calentamiento global no será televisado :: January :: 2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 11:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381617</guid>
		<description>[...] esto lo explicaba el 1 de Enero en el New York Times un científico que no parece ser precisamente de la escuela de Bjorn Lomborg, sino un defensor de [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] esto lo explicaba el 1 de Enero en el New York Times un cient&#237;fico que no parece ser precisamente de la escuela de Bjorn Lomborg, sino un defensor de [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Hancock</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381609</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Hancock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/17/forecast-gloom-and-doom/#comment-381609</guid>
		<description>Thanks for posting this article.  One more reason why I foam at the mouth when people tell me how great Al Gore is.  I strongly recommend the book &lt;i&gt;Cool It&lt;/i&gt;, a calm look at the myths and truths of Global Warming as told by an actual environmentalist, not an enviro-activist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for posting this article.  One more reason why I foam at the mouth when people tell me how great Al Gore is.  I strongly recommend the book <i>Cool It</i>, a calm look at the myths and truths of Global Warming as told by an actual environmentalist, not an enviro-activist.</p>
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