A German cartoon published at the start of World War I, indicating the German belief that the alliance of Germany and Austria would defeat the “entente” of England, France and Russia.

tripleentente.jpg


COMMENTS / 9 COMMENTS

In all fairness, they came close to winning. The US entry to the Great War is the sole reason that the German Empire collapsed.

Eric added these pithy words on 08 Jan 08 at 2:52 am

I take it Eric, that you’ve read and agree with the assessment of Mosier’s Myth of the Great War.

Jing added these pithy words on 08 Jan 08 at 7:12 pm

Jing, honestly I never read Mosier’s work bu I’ve seen the synopsis. My historiography thesis in College was on Foch, and a number of historians share Mosier’s theories. A number of minor (American) historians of Germany have said more or less the same thing.

Eric added these pithy words on 08 Jan 08 at 9:12 pm

Are you sure Germany’s defeat in WWI was not the fault of Jews and slackers at home? I seem to recall reading that somewhere.

Chief Wiggum added these pithy words on 08 Jan 08 at 11:24 pm

Some of his theories are quite valid and supported by available evidence. Some of the conclusions he draws and the method in which he draws them are questionable.

Was the German military more effective than the French and British ones? Yes with a but…

Did the U.S. entry into the war cause the collapse of Germany? Yes, however…

Counterfactually speaking, would the Germans have won the war had the U.S. not allied with the Entente? Most likely not for a myriad of reasons.

Jing added these pithy words on 09 Jan 08 at 2:40 am

The controversy at home surrounding America’s entrance into the war on the side of the Entente was surely one of the great defining moments of the 20th century. And although not all school texts record it, there was a real uproar in some quarters at in response to Wilson’s decision.

Curzon added these pithy words on 09 Jan 08 at 4:41 am

Jing, good point. It think it’s fair to say that without U.S. intervention, Germany would have militarily defeated France, and achieved some sort of separate peace with The UK. But the endstate wouldn’t have been a German “victory” in any idealized situation. Preventing the perceived “selling out” of the German state by the Socialist dominated government doesn’t necessarily mean that Germany would have been the moderate center-left pacifist country that we think of today. There is a really good argument that after the armies marched home in “victory”, the defacto civil war between government forces and political militias would still take place. France and Germany both had the economic guts, adn the large part of a generation ripped away from them. The better question is why did Germany implode, as france “relatively” peacefully waned during the interwar period. And what lessons can we take away as other modern states deal with the waning of there strategic importance, as there social welfare states become progressively less feasible.

Eric added these pithy words on 10 Jan 08 at 3:35 am

Jing, I agree that US intervention prevented what was pretty much an inevitable military defeat of France. I also agree that it would by no means be a “victory” for Germany. Even when you work through all of the political, military, and economic issues of the post war period, it still seems likely that Germany would have imploded in the defacto civil war of the 20’s

Eric added these pithy words on 10 Jan 08 at 3:39 am

My own education suggests that while the U.S. decision to come out on the side of the Allies was a tremendous psychological (and logistical) shot in the arm, most especially for the French, the U.S. military contribution to the fighting was miniscule when compared to French and British efforts. Unfortunately, I will have to shelve any real effort I could make to argue that point, as my library is still in storage and house hunting takes up the majority of my time. So, just this drive-by: Remember that the U.S. Army of WWI was very much in the learning stage, and had not conducted division or corps level operations against any serious enemy since 1865.

lirelou added these pithy words on 11 Jan 08 at 10:21 pm

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Posted on 08 Jan 08 by Curzon. Subscribe to follow comments on this post. 9 comments. Add your thoughts or trackback from your own site.

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