Comments on: WWI Humor http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/ Speak Victorian, Think Pagan Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:41:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: lirelou http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381561 lirelou Fri, 11 Jan 2008 22:21:17 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381561 My own education suggests that while the U.S. decision to come out on the side of the Allies was a tremendous psychological (and logistical) shot in the arm, most especially for the French, the U.S. military contribution to the fighting was miniscule when compared to French and British efforts. Unfortunately, I will have to shelve any real effort I could make to argue that point, as my library is still in storage and house hunting takes up the majority of my time. So, just this drive-by: Remember that the U.S. Army of WWI was very much in the learning stage, and had not conducted division or corps level operations against any serious enemy since 1865. My own education suggests that while the U.S. decision to come out on the side of the Allies was a tremendous psychological (and logistical) shot in the arm, most especially for the French, the U.S. military contribution to the fighting was miniscule when compared to French and British efforts. Unfortunately, I will have to shelve any real effort I could make to argue that point, as my library is still in storage and house hunting takes up the majority of my time. So, just this drive-by: Remember that the U.S. Army of WWI was very much in the learning stage, and had not conducted division or corps level operations against any serious enemy since 1865.

]]> By: Eric http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381546 Eric Thu, 10 Jan 2008 03:39:25 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381546 Jing, I agree that US intervention prevented what was pretty much an inevitable military defeat of France. I also agree that it would by no means be a "victory" for Germany. Even when you work through all of the political, military, and economic issues of the post war period, it still seems likely that Germany would have imploded in the defacto civil war of the 20's Jing, I agree that US intervention prevented what was pretty much an inevitable military defeat of France. I also agree that it would by no means be a “victory” for Germany. Even when you work through all of the political, military, and economic issues of the post war period, it still seems likely that Germany would have imploded in the defacto civil war of the 20’s

]]> By: Eric http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381545 Eric Thu, 10 Jan 2008 03:35:55 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381545 Jing, good point. It think it's fair to say that without U.S. intervention, Germany would have militarily defeated France, and achieved some sort of separate peace with The UK. But the endstate wouldn't have been a German "victory" in any idealized situation. Preventing the perceived "selling out" of the German state by the Socialist dominated government doesn't necessarily mean that Germany would have been the moderate center-left pacifist country that we think of today. There is a really good argument that after the armies marched home in "victory", the defacto civil war between government forces and political militias would still take place. France and Germany both had the economic guts, adn the large part of a generation ripped away from them. The better question is why did Germany implode, as france "relatively" peacefully waned during the interwar period. And what lessons can we take away as other modern states deal with the waning of there strategic importance, as there social welfare states become progressively less feasible. Jing, good point. It think it’s fair to say that without U.S. intervention, Germany would have militarily defeated France, and achieved some sort of separate peace with The UK. But the endstate wouldn’t have been a German “victory” in any idealized situation. Preventing the perceived “selling out” of the German state by the Socialist dominated government doesn’t necessarily mean that Germany would have been the moderate center-left pacifist country that we think of today. There is a really good argument that after the armies marched home in “victory”, the defacto civil war between government forces and political militias would still take place. France and Germany both had the economic guts, adn the large part of a generation ripped away from them. The better question is why did Germany implode, as france “relatively” peacefully waned during the interwar period. And what lessons can we take away as other modern states deal with the waning of there strategic importance, as there social welfare states become progressively less feasible.

]]> By: Curzon http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381537 Curzon Wed, 09 Jan 2008 04:41:08 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381537 The controversy at home surrounding America's entrance into the war on the side of the Entente was surely one of the great defining moments of the 20th century. And although not all school texts record it, there was a real uproar in some quarters at in response to Wilson's decision. The controversy at home surrounding America’s entrance into the war on the side of the Entente was surely one of the great defining moments of the 20th century. And although not all school texts record it, there was a real uproar in some quarters at in response to Wilson’s decision.

]]> By: Jing http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381536 Jing Wed, 09 Jan 2008 02:40:39 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381536 Some of his theories are quite valid and supported by available evidence. Some of the conclusions he draws and the method in which he draws them are questionable. Was the German military more effective than the French and British ones? Yes with a but... Did the U.S. entry into the war cause the collapse of Germany? Yes, however... Counterfactually speaking, would the Germans have won the war had the U.S. not allied with the Entente? Most likely not for a myriad of reasons. Some of his theories are quite valid and supported by available evidence. Some of the conclusions he draws and the method in which he draws them are questionable.

Was the German military more effective than the French and British ones? Yes with a but…

Did the U.S. entry into the war cause the collapse of Germany? Yes, however…

Counterfactually speaking, would the Germans have won the war had the U.S. not allied with the Entente? Most likely not for a myriad of reasons.

]]> By: Chief Wiggum http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381535 Chief Wiggum Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:24:30 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381535 Are you sure Germany's defeat in WWI was not the fault of Jews and slackers at home? I seem to recall reading that somewhere. Are you sure Germany’s defeat in WWI was not the fault of Jews and slackers at home? I seem to recall reading that somewhere.

]]> By: Eric http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381534 Eric Tue, 08 Jan 2008 21:12:56 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381534 Jing, honestly I never read Mosier's work bu I've seen the synopsis. My historiography thesis in College was on Foch, and a number of historians share Mosier's theories. A number of minor (American) historians of Germany have said more or less the same thing. Jing, honestly I never read Mosier’s work bu I’ve seen the synopsis. My historiography thesis in College was on Foch, and a number of historians share Mosier’s theories. A number of minor (American) historians of Germany have said more or less the same thing.

]]> By: Jing http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381533 Jing Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:12:14 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381533 I take it Eric, that you've read and agree with the assessment of Mosier's Myth of the Great War. I take it Eric, that you’ve read and agree with the assessment of Mosier’s Myth of the Great War.

]]> By: Eric http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381532 Eric Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:52:46 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2008/01/08/wwi-humor/#comment-381532 In all fairness, they came close to winning. The US entry to the Great War is the sole reason that the German Empire collapsed. In all fairness, they came close to winning. The US entry to the Great War is the sole reason that the German Empire collapsed.

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