Comments on: The big issue of 2008: climate change http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/31/the-big-issue-of-2008-climate-change/ Speak Victorian, Think Pagan Thu, 28 Aug 2008 03:01:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: ComingAnarchy.com » Blog Archive » Forecast: Gloom and Doom http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/31/the-big-issue-of-2008-climate-change/#comment-381607 ComingAnarchy.com » Blog Archive » Forecast: Gloom and Doom Thu, 17 Jan 2008 00:27:33 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/31/the-big-issue-of-2008-climate-change/#comment-381607 [...] a follow-up to Younghusband’s post on The Economist stating that climate change would be the big issue of 2008 comes this dated, but relevant, article from the January 1 edition of the New York [...] [...] a follow-up to Younghusband’s post on The Economist stating that climate change would be the big issue of 2008 comes this dated, but relevant, article from the January 1 edition of the New York [...]

]]> By: CTDeLude http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/31/the-big-issue-of-2008-climate-change/#comment-381517 CTDeLude Sun, 06 Jan 2008 19:26:29 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/31/the-big-issue-of-2008-climate-change/#comment-381517 Well Jim hits on something I hadn't thought on but makes perfect sense really. It just seems to be the latest "death comes nigh" trend. Personally I think it also speaks to the desire in humanity to "matter" beyond just existing. The educated in many ways have fostered this as their own religion with the need to save "Gaia" being the central tenant. Either way I remain convinced it's a bunch of hooey. This post ( http://californiansojourn.blogs.com/california/2007/12/climate-changeg.html) from last year of mine really cemented the fact in my mind. Well Jim hits on something I hadn’t thought on but makes perfect sense really. It just seems to be the latest “death comes nigh” trend. Personally I think it also speaks to the desire in humanity to “matter” beyond just existing. The educated in many ways have fostered this as their own religion with the need to save “Gaia” being the central tenant.

Either way I remain convinced it’s a bunch of hooey. This post ( http://californiansojourn.blogs.com/california/2007/12/climate-changeg.html) from last year of mine really cemented the fact in my mind.

]]> By: Arcane http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/31/the-big-issue-of-2008-climate-change/#comment-381476 Arcane Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:09:40 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/31/the-big-issue-of-2008-climate-change/#comment-381476 <i>carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas</i> Sorry, this is highly debatable. There is no longer any conclusive evidence that it is a greenhouse gas. It was assumed so in the past based on correlations, not actual experimentation, and those correlations have been found to be highly inaccurate as of late. Rises in carbon dioxide levels have been found to be occurring <i>after</i> temperature increases, not the other way around. carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas

Sorry, this is highly debatable. There is no longer any conclusive evidence that it is a greenhouse gas. It was assumed so in the past based on correlations, not actual experimentation, and those correlations have been found to be highly inaccurate as of late. Rises in carbon dioxide levels have been found to be occurring after temperature increases, not the other way around.

]]> By: Alfred Russel Wallace http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/31/the-big-issue-of-2008-climate-change/#comment-381444 Alfred Russel Wallace Thu, 03 Jan 2008 03:05:42 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/31/the-big-issue-of-2008-climate-change/#comment-381444 I agree with both Arcane and Jim. The fundamental problem is that responses to perceived global warming are invariably presented as things that somebody else must do... energy companies force their products on customers, car manufacturers make obscenely large cars in direct opposition to the wishes of their customers, airlines force passengers onto their planes, etc. etc. and must be stopped. RUBBISH! The problem is US - you and me - and our greed. Regardless of how well or poorly climate models work (I am in the skeptical camp), carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, so we should try to minimize its release. It is sobering to realize that the average age of crude oil is 100 million years - it has been sitting there all that time, and we will consume it in a few hundred years! We can surely agree that the world cannot afford 6 billion living as we do... and regardless of when 'peak oil' hits, no-one can imagine the supply of oil is endless. What we need is leadership to find a positive way to both broaden economic prosperity and reduce energy intensity... A tough challenge, and few seem to be looking to lead.... I agree with both Arcane and Jim. The fundamental problem is that responses to perceived global warming are invariably presented as things that somebody else must do… energy companies force their products on customers, car manufacturers make obscenely large cars in direct opposition to the wishes of their customers, airlines force passengers onto their planes, etc. etc. and must be stopped. RUBBISH! The problem is US - you and me – and our greed.

Regardless of how well or poorly climate models work (I am in the skeptical camp), carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas, so we should try to minimize its release. It is sobering to realize that the average age of crude oil is 100 million years – it has been sitting there all that time, and we will consume it in a few hundred years!

We can surely agree that the world cannot afford 6 billion living as we do… and regardless of when ‘peak oil’ hits, no-one can imagine the supply of oil is endless. What we need is leadership to find a positive way to both broaden economic prosperity and reduce energy intensity… A tough challenge, and few seem to be looking to lead….

]]> By: jim http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/31/the-big-issue-of-2008-climate-change/#comment-381437 jim Wed, 02 Jan 2008 17:28:40 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/31/the-big-issue-of-2008-climate-change/#comment-381437 Human beings are, I think, instinctively apocalyptic in nature. We are naturally drawn to "the end is nigh" styles of thinking even as we recognize it as a symptom of religious mania. Global warming rhetoric provides the scientific fig leaf for our educated classes (who should know better) to indulge in intoxicating apocalyptic declarations of doom -- which is always fun. Environmental piety also allows us to denounce our fellows as evil sinners who are killing the planet. People enjoy being self-righteous. Global Warming doom-mongering is just a secular version of the Left Behind books. An interesting question is how long it will last? When the Earth hasn't devolved into apocalyptic hell by 2020, will the hysteria die down? 2030, 2040, 2050? Scare stories about glaciers melting in a thousand years aren't sufficient to maintain popular hysterias. I think a decade or two is the farthest out imminent doom can be to sustain a real mass fear. Human beings are, I think, instinctively apocalyptic in nature. We are naturally drawn to “the end is nigh” styles of thinking even as we recognize it as a symptom of religious mania. Global warming rhetoric provides the scientific fig leaf for our educated classes (who should know better) to indulge in intoxicating apocalyptic declarations of doom—which is always fun.

Environmental piety also allows us to denounce our fellows as evil sinners who are killing the planet. People enjoy being self-righteous.

Global Warming doom-mongering is just a secular version of the Left Behind books.

An interesting question is how long it will last? When the Earth hasn’t devolved into apocalyptic hell by 2020, will the hysteria die down? 2030, 2040, 2050?

Scare stories about glaciers melting in a thousand years aren’t sufficient to maintain popular hysterias. I think a decade or two is the farthest out imminent doom can be to sustain a real mass fear.

]]> By: Arcane http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/31/the-big-issue-of-2008-climate-change/#comment-381430 Arcane Wed, 02 Jan 2008 06:35:30 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/31/the-big-issue-of-2008-climate-change/#comment-381430 <i>I just hope we don’t get caught up in the fad and remain skeptical like The Economist was back in 2004.</i> The Economist has not been skeptical about environmental concerns, and I doubt most who oppose much environmental legislation are skeptical either. What matters is realism and prioritization. We must closely analyze what we can affect and the impact that it will have with cost-benefit analysis, and prioritize accordingly. The Copenhagen Consensus was an extremely important event that unfortunately did not receive enough attention. Their analysis and plan of action has my full support. I just hope we don’t get caught up in the fad and remain skeptical like The Economist was back in 2004.

The Economist has not been skeptical about environmental concerns, and I doubt most who oppose much environmental legislation are skeptical either. What matters is realism and prioritization. We must closely analyze what we can affect and the impact that it will have with cost-benefit analysis, and prioritize accordingly. The Copenhagen Consensus was an extremely important event that unfortunately did not receive enough attention. Their analysis and plan of action has my full support.

]]>