Comments on: The phenomenon of the “flip-flop” http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/ Speak Victorian, Think Pagan Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:16:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: ComingAnarchy.com » Blog Archive » Edge: What have you changed your mind about? http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381465 ComingAnarchy.com » Blog Archive » Edge: What have you changed your mind about? Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:43:55 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381465 [...] comment is particularly interesting as I posted on the topic just two weeks [...] [...] comment is particularly interesting as I posted on the topic just two weeks [...]

]]> By: Richard http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381378 Richard Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:37:58 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381378 Perhaps Edmund Burke's approach was best. Roughly, in representative democracy one elects a representative of intelligence, judgment, and integrity, who will use those qualities in legislating. One does not elect a narrow-minded advocate. Perhaps Edmund Burke’s approach was best. Roughly, in representative democracy one elects a representative of intelligence, judgment, and integrity, who will use those qualities in legislating. One does not elect a narrow-minded advocate.

]]> By: subadei http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381368 subadei Wed, 26 Dec 2007 00:18:32 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381368 And a belated Merry Christmas. And a belated Merry Christmas.

]]> By: subadei http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381367 subadei Wed, 26 Dec 2007 00:17:47 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381367 YH, While I agree the ability of a politician to change his mind is paramount to effective leadership there remains a division between constructive reconsideration and convenient change of rhetoric for the purpose of political gain. This, I think, is where Thomas' point holds merit. YH,
While I agree the ability of a politician to change his mind is paramount to effective leadership there remains a division between constructive reconsideration and convenient change of rhetoric for the purpose of political gain. This, I think, is where Thomas’ point holds merit.

]]> By: Younghusband http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381363 Younghusband Mon, 24 Dec 2007 23:13:00 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381363 "Joe said":http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381359 "People vote for a candidate because they expect certain policies to be pursued." which is reflects "Dan's comment":http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381356 that people "oppose the idea that policies will be decided by compromises between factions." "Allison's":http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essence_of_decision Bureaucratic Model anyone? "Thomas":http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381360 gets to the meat of the issue: "If we allow politicians unlimited room to change their position then we leave our them leeway to never take a stand on anything, which is no better." Why? If a politician changes his position upon new evidence, and can clearly explain himself then what is the issue? Is it because the electorate cannot take the time to listen to a good explanation (ie. the politicians have to work in the medium of soundbytes)? "Merry Chrifsmas":http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/happy-holidays/ to you too "Chief":http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381361. Joe said “People vote for a candidate because they expect certain policies to be pursued.” which is reflects Dan’s comment that people “oppose the idea that policies will be decided by compromises between factions.” Allison’s Bureaucratic Model anyone?

Thomas gets to the meat of the issue: “If we allow politicians unlimited room to change their position then we leave our them leeway to never take a stand on anything, which is no better.”

Why? If a politician changes his position upon new evidence, and can clearly explain himself then what is the issue? Is it because the electorate cannot take the time to listen to a good explanation (ie. the politicians have to work in the medium of soundbytes)?

Merry Chrifsmas to you too Chief.

]]> By: Chief Wiggum http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381361 Chief Wiggum Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:38:22 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381361 Politicians are held at the same level of public esteem as television preachers, pedophiles, whores and used car salesmen. When they "flip-flop." they confirm the public's low opinion of them. It's an almost impossible job. No matter what they say or do, somebody's going to hate their guts. The public arena is so brutal that many good people don't want to subject themselves and their families to it. That may be why the profession seems to attract a lot of oddballs. But, God bless 'em. They are all that keep us from killing each other. BTW, Merry Christmas to the CA guys and readers. Politicians are held at the same level of public esteem as television preachers, pedophiles, whores and used car salesmen. When they “flip-flop.” they confirm the public’s low opinion of them. It’s an almost impossible job. No matter what they say or do, somebody’s going to hate their guts. The public arena is so brutal that many good people don’t want to subject themselves and their families to it. That may be why the profession seems to attract a lot of oddballs.

But, God bless ‘em. They are all that keep us from killing each other.

BTW, Merry Christmas to the CA guys and readers.

]]> By: Thomas http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381360 Thomas Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:12:22 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381360 <i>Only in politics (and religion) is it considered a virtue not to change one’s mind despite evidence</i>. And how funny is the attendant blending of the two in American elections? Seriously, while I can't vote for someone that entrenches themself with the first idea that comes to mind, I also can't trust a politician that changes their mind with every minor shift in the beltway breeze. If we allow politicians unlimited room to change their position then we leave our them leeway to never take a stand on anything, which is no better. Only in politics (and religion) is it considered a virtue not to change one’s mind despite evidence.

And how funny is the attendant blending of the two in American elections?

Seriously, while I can’t vote for someone that entrenches themself with the first idea that comes to mind, I also can’t trust a politician that changes their mind with every minor shift in the beltway breeze. If we allow politicians unlimited room to change their position then we leave our them leeway to never take a stand on anything, which is no better.

]]> By: Joe http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381359 Joe Mon, 24 Dec 2007 10:47:21 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381359 It seems like more of an issue of broken promises. People vote for a candidate because they expect certain policies to be pursued. They don't like it when the candidate fails to live up to the platform which got them elected, even if the circumstances have changed so as to make that platform obsolete. Sort of like a breach of warranty, I guess. (I bought this because I thought it would cut taxes! What happened?!) It seems like more of an issue of broken promises. People vote for a candidate because they expect certain policies to be pursued. They don’t like it when the candidate fails to live up to the platform which got them elected, even if the circumstances have changed so as to make that platform obsolete.

Sort of like a breach of warranty, I guess. (I bought this because I thought it would cut taxes! What happened?!)

]]> By: Dan tdaxp http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381356 Dan tdaxp Mon, 24 Dec 2007 04:46:33 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/12/24/the-phenomenon-of-the-flip-flop/#comment-381356 <blockquote>Only in politics (and religion) is it considered a virtue not to change one’s mind despite evidence to the contrary.</blockquote> Perhaps, but that's irrelevent. People are inherently anti-democratic, in that they oppose the idea that policies will be decided by compromises between factions that have power relative to degree that they can influence elections. People prefer a technocratic government, and are angered at signs that they do not have this (and indeed, that there is no prospect of some a government forming in the future). If "flip-flopping" was visibly performed as a result of new evidence, you may have a point. But "flip-flopping" is rather a painful reminder of the powerlessness of facts in the face of political reality, not a sign that politicians are using the scientific method.
Only in politics (and religion) is it considered a virtue not to change one’s mind despite evidence to the contrary.

Perhaps, but that’s irrelevent.

People are inherently anti-democratic, in that they oppose the idea that policies will be decided by compromises between factions that have power relative to degree that they can influence elections. People prefer a technocratic government, and are angered at signs that they do not have this (and indeed, that there is no prospect of some a government forming in the future).

If “flip-flopping” was visibly performed as a result of new evidence, you may have a point. But “flip-flopping” is rather a painful reminder of the powerlessness of facts in the face of political reality, not a sign that politicians are using the scientific method.

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