Comments on: The rise of the Pacific alliance http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/ Speak Victorian, Think Pagan Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:05:08 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Admiral http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/comment-page-1/#comment-378532 Admiral Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:25:20 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/#comment-378532 I'm all for parallels but this one seems to fall slightly short. If NATO is a framed painting in a museum, this is but a sketch on wax paper. I'm not saying I don't like the sound of it, or that it might be developed someday into a nice work of art, but the context isn't there. China is not, nor I think will it ever be, the menace the USSR was -- although keeping close friends always seems like a good idea. I’m all for parallels but this one seems to fall slightly short. If NATO is a framed painting in a museum, this is but a sketch on wax paper. I’m not saying I don’t like the sound of it, or that it might be developed someday into a nice work of art, but the context isn’t there. China is not, nor I think will it ever be, the menace the USSR was — although keeping close friends always seems like a good idea.

]]> By: Younghusband http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/comment-page-1/#comment-378491 Younghusband Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:47:39 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/#comment-378491 @GH and Lex: Although I mention the possibility of this Pacific alliance absorbing China what I intended to emphasize in this post was the alliance forming across disparate regions and cultures: America, Australia, Japan and India. Specifically I point out Japan which is possibly making the biggest leap considering its constitution and post-war (and pre-war) policies. China (and of course N. Korea) would be the next most surprising country to join something like this in my opinion. Many pundits such as TM Barnett have harped on the need for a NATO-like organization to tackle collective regional security which has been basically the de facto job of America since the end of the second world war. But the relations between the countries in Asia have been riddled with mistrust and historical enmity. Yet now we see these disparate countries forming the foundations of a group that could bring about the actualization of a NATO like organization. As far as I know, this is the first time we have seen such pan-Pacific institutionalism since the Greater Co-Prosperity Sphere. Hopefully the outcome this time around is a bit more pleasing. @GH and Lex: Although I mention the possibility of this Pacific alliance absorbing China what I intended to emphasize in this post was the alliance forming across disparate regions and cultures: America, Australia, Japan and India. Specifically I point out Japan which is possibly making the biggest leap considering its constitution and post-war (and pre-war) policies. China (and of course N. Korea) would be the next most surprising country to join something like this in my opinion.

Many pundits such as TM Barnett have harped on the need for a NATO-like organization to tackle collective regional security which has been basically the de facto job of America since the end of the second world war. But the relations between the countries in Asia have been riddled with mistrust and historical enmity. Yet now we see these disparate countries forming the foundations of a group that could bring about the actualization of a NATO like organization. As far as I know, this is the first time we have seen such pan-Pacific institutionalism since the Greater Co-Prosperity Sphere. Hopefully the outcome this time around is a bit more pleasing.

]]> By: jimbo http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/comment-page-1/#comment-378360 jimbo Mon, 10 Sep 2007 10:00:04 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/#comment-378360 Pakistan and Korea complicate things. Pakistan is a forward base for containing both Sunni and Shia Islamists. OTOH it is itself unstable and a potential enemy of India. Korea is politically and economically divided but united in its dislike of Japan. China's help is needed for containing NK, which poses a grave threat to regional stability. Pakistan and Korea complicate things. Pakistan is a forward base for containing both Sunni and Shia Islamists. OTOH it is itself unstable and a potential enemy of India. Korea is politically and economically divided but united in its dislike of Japan. China’s help is needed for containing NK, which poses a grave threat to regional stability.

]]> By: IJ http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/comment-page-1/#comment-378300 IJ Sun, 09 Sep 2007 16:01:56 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/#comment-378300 <a href="http://www.mainstreamweekly.net/article296.html" rel="nofollow">New ”˜NATO of the East' Takes Shape</a> Many think the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation will develop into a new NATO. The SCO is especially disappointed at progress by the US and NATO in Afghanistan, which was said at the Bishkek summit to be becoming an open wound infecting Central Asia. President Putin called for a reinforcement of “anti-drug security belts”? around Afghanistan supervised by SCO monitors. The Bishkek Declaration said: The member countries are willing to participate in the efforts to normalise Afghanistan's political situation ”¦ as well as improve the work of the SCO-Afghanistan Contact Group. The Joint Communique issued after the Bishkek summit said: "The [SCO] leaders also discussed the possibility of the SCO taking bigger part in the Afghanistan affairs, to contribute more to regional security and stability." Finally SCO plan to hold an international conference in Afghanistan next year. Scope for an alliance? New âËNATO of the East’ Takes Shape

Many think the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation will develop into a new NATO.

The SCO is especially disappointed at progress by the US and NATO in Afghanistan, which was said at the Bishkek summit to be becoming an open wound infecting Central Asia. President Putin called for a reinforcement of âanti-drug security beltsâ? around Afghanistan supervised by SCO monitors.

The Bishkek Declaration said: The member countries are willing to participate in the efforts to normalise Afghanistan’s political situation ⦠as well as improve the work of the SCO-Afghanistan Contact Group. The Joint Communique issued after the Bishkek summit said: “The [SCO] leaders also discussed the possibility of the SCO taking bigger part in the Afghanistan affairs, to contribute more to regional security and stability.” Finally SCO plan to hold an international conference in Afghanistan next year.

Scope for an alliance?

]]> By: Curzon http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/comment-page-1/#comment-378295 Curzon Sun, 09 Sep 2007 13:58:58 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/#comment-378295 It's an interesting coalition forming -- the US, Japan, Australia, and India are shaping up with the potential to be the next NATO. It’s an interesting coalition forming — the US, Japan, Australia, and India are shaping up with the potential to be the next NATO.

]]> By: links for 2007-09-09 « Newsbong: Because News Matters, Kinda http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/comment-page-1/#comment-378281 links for 2007-09-09 « Newsbong: Because News Matters, Kinda Sun, 09 Sep 2007 08:23:32 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/#comment-378281 [...] The rise of the Pacific alliance (tags: politics) [...] [...] The rise of the Pacific alliance (tags: politics) [...]

]]> By: Lexington Green http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/comment-page-1/#comment-378263 Lexington Green Sat, 08 Sep 2007 23:44:05 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/#comment-378263 This article, about the ongoing naval exercise in the Bay of Bengal involving the USA, India, Australia, Japan and Singapore, is entited <a href="http://www.india-defence.com/reports-3528" rel="nofollow">Defense Analysts See Beginning Of Asian Naval Alliance In Bay Of Bengal Wargames</a>. But the American commander states very clearly that it is not directed against China. But he would say that. At this point, I think it is more a matter of building up the relationships and interoperability, and that way if there is a need, down the road, for "containment" of the PRC, the foundations will be in place. It is a little to early to think we are seeing any kind of Asian NATO -- whether directed against China, or even more remotely, some day including China. This article, about the ongoing naval exercise in the Bay of Bengal involving the USA, India, Australia, Japan and Singapore, is entited Defense Analysts See Beginning Of Asian Naval Alliance In Bay Of Bengal Wargames. But the American commander states very clearly that it is not directed against China. But he would say that. At this point, I think it is more a matter of building up the relationships and interoperability, and that way if there is a need, down the road, for “containment” of the PRC, the foundations will be in place. It is a little to early to think we are seeing any kind of Asian NATO – whether directed against China, or even more remotely, some day including China.

]]> By: Gray Hat http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/comment-page-1/#comment-378245 Gray Hat Sat, 08 Sep 2007 15:44:30 +0000 http://cominganarchy.com/2007/09/08/the-rise-of-the-pacific-alliance/#comment-378245 You emphasize the potential for an amicable and peaceful evolution: "... a NATO-like structure that could absorb China, facilitating its constructive participation in collective regional security." I'm afraid it requires some optimism to find this silver lining. "A bit of cold war action first" may prove a memorable understatement. And in view of recent developments in Russia, the example of NATO and the USSR doesn't offer much grounds for hope that a deterrent alliance will serve to reconcile or coopt an adversary. You emphasize the potential for an amicable and peaceful evolution:

“… a NATO-like structure that could absorb China, facilitating its constructive participation in collective regional security.”

I’m afraid it requires some optimism to find this silver lining. “A bit of cold war action first” may prove a memorable understatement. And in view of recent developments in Russia, the example of NATO and the USSR doesn’t offer much grounds for hope that a deterrent alliance will serve to reconcile or coopt an adversary.

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