what’s maddening about 300 ... is that no one involved … seems to have noticed that we’re in the middle of an actual war. With actual Persians. ... to cast 300 as a purely apolitical romp of an action film smacks of either disingenuousness or complete obliviousness. One of the few war movies I’ve seen in the past two decades that doesn’t include at least some nod in the direction of antiwar sentiment, 300 is a mythic ode to righteous bellicosity.
I have one thing to say to the over-sensitive Slate movie reviewer Dana Stevens: This is SPARTA! (*kicks her down well*)
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mohawk blogger » 300 added these pithy words on Mar 17 07 at 1:41 am[...] Some people have been a little bit over-sensitive for the movie, which is after all based on a cartoon book. It really doesn’t have much to do with the actual war between the Greeks and Persians in the 4th century BC. It doesn’t even try to follow the stories of Herodotus and Plutarch. Its a movie. And at Coming Anarchy, they had perfect answer for Dan Stevens at the Slate, “THIS IS SPARTA!” what’s maddening about 300 … is that no one involved “¦ seems to have noticed that we’re in the middle of an actual war. With actual Persians. … to cast 300 as a purely apolitical romp of an action film smacks of either disingenuousness or complete obliviousness. One of the few war movies I’ve seen in the past two decades that doesn’t include at least some nod in the direction of antiwar sentiment, 300 is a mythic ode to righteous bellicosity. [...]
ElamBend added these pithy words on 09 Mar 07 at 1:09 pmWas there supposed to be a nod to Greek traitors (if there were any) that would have allowed the Persians to destroy western civilization in it infancy? I mean talk about lack of context.
John Robb added these pithy words on 09 Mar 07 at 2:21 pmSo funny.
It wouldn’t be a classical Greek war without a bevy of traitors.
ckrisz added these pithy words on 09 Mar 07 at 3:12 pmThat would have be the numerous Greeks who fought on the Persian side—- the Ionian Greeks who made up a substantial number of the Persian navy defeated at Salamis and Mycale, the Boeotians, the Thessalians, the Macedonians (though it’s up in the air exactly how ‘Greek’ they are), most of the Greek cities north of Thermopylae really—- that is, there were probably more Greeks were under Persian rule or who swore fealty to Persia than were independent at the time.
Jason W added these pithy words on 09 Mar 07 at 4:11 pmCould this film be considered a prequel to Oliver Stone’s Alexander? Big Al ended up having the last laugh… as far as the Persians were concerned. WESTERN CIVILIZATION RULES! Remember Thermopylae!
Rommel added these pithy words on 09 Mar 07 at 6:24 pmIn some ways this is a timely movie. i’ve also been itching for a good Greek-Persia themed movie since I started reading The Virtues of War.
You think the film will be shown in Iran? ;)
Chirol added these pithy words on 09 Mar 07 at 7:11 pmOh how I wish I could see this in English somewhere. I’ll have to check the theaters in Dohuk.
John Robb added these pithy words on 09 Mar 07 at 7:46 pmJust saw it. It was absolutely amazing. In my top ten movies of all time.
Michael added these pithy words on 09 Mar 07 at 8:01 pmNow to get Frank Miller to do Marathon and Salamis—maybe as a lead up to PELOPPONESIAN WARS- THE SERIES?
von Kaufman-Turkestansky added these pithy words on 09 Mar 07 at 9:00 pmAnd vhy does she have zuch a phoblem viz eugenics, hmmmm?
tequila added these pithy words on 09 Mar 07 at 10:49 pmNote that Alexander and his Macedonians were not regarded as truly Greek by many Greeks. More Greeks fought on the Persian side during the Macedonian invasion than fought for Alexander, who did not trust Greek soldiers enough to use them as any more than garrison troops and LOC guards. Also note the repeated rebellions against Macedonian domination by the Greek city-states during Alexander’s lifetime and immediately after his death.
Jing added these pithy words on 10 Mar 07 at 12:50 amI never ceased to be amazed how unfailingly contemporary “Occidentals” are willing to canonize a group of bloodthirsty pederasts.
a517dogg added these pithy words on 10 Mar 07 at 7:10 amJust saw it. It was pretty good, but some of it was just ridiculous. Rhinos, a cave troll, a big fat dude with knives for arms, a goat-person, etc? And for all the talk about the Spartan’s phalanx, they only fought in it occasionally, running around to spew blood everywhere whenever the heavy metal kicked in. And it was a little disappointing how the only human characters were the Spartans – all the Arcadians were cowards or incompetents, Xerxes was a “god” and all the rest of the Persians were slaves, with no exceptions. But once the combat scenes started and you stopped thinking about it, it was very entertaining. And the cinematography was excellent.
zenpundit added these pithy words on 10 Mar 07 at 11:35 pmTequila wrote:
“More Greeks fought on the Persian side during the Macedonian invasion than fought for Alexander,”
Nothing unusual about that considering the frequency of mercenary employment in war and the size of the Ionian Greek population of Asia minor at the time. Xenophon, for example, comes to mind.
“who did not trust Greek soldiers enough to use them as any more than garrison troops and LOC guards.
Whom did Alexander trust ? Not even his own generals by the end.
As an aside, Dana Stevens is a hyperbolic misfit. What a fool.
Aceface added these pithy words on 12 Mar 07 at 9:01 amResponse from Tehran on “300”
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=2277§ionid=351020101
ckrisz added these pithy words on 12 Mar 07 at 10:01 amZenpundit – The post about Greek vs Macedonian participation in Alexander’s invasion is to denote the speciousness or arguments like Jason W’s. “Western civilization” is hardly as unitary as mythmakers point out.
Younghusband added these pithy words on 13 Mar 07 at 3:24 amI think tequila made the best comment on Armchair Generalist:
I’ll just say that 300 has about as much to do with the Persian invasion of Greece as the Chuck Norris movie THE DELTA FORCE has to do with special operations. The best part of THAT movie was when Chuck stood up to the forces of Islamofascism by blowing them up with rockets fired from the handlebars of his motorcycle. That was almost as l!!t as when the Spartan speared the charging rhino, or when they propelled the elephants from the cliff by the power of their abs of freedom.
zenpundit added these pithy words on 13 Mar 07 at 4:20 amLOL! Even I must salute Tequila for ” abs of Freedom” (genuflects….)
ckrisz
No, it wasn’t unitary – myths and movies are not history. Net result though, we’re better off that the Greeks won the Persian Wars than the reverse.
Curzon added these pithy words on 13 Mar 07 at 6:04 amJing: I understand your point. But a somewhat contemporary Oriental-Occidental, whether it be the brave 300 or the Lexington Minutemen, I genuinely admire anyone willing to fight and die for their freedom from a power that would dominate and enslave them.
And no, Mr. Moore, that doesn’t include insurgents in Iraq.
ckrisz added these pithy words on 13 Mar 07 at 8:15 amActually, the Iraqi insurgents frankly are quite a bit nicer than the Spartans were. They don’t make a habit of literally enslaving those around them, they don’t toss their own infants off cliffs, they don’t ritually molest their male children, etc. etc. Frankly the only thing the Spartans have going for them is valor in battle, which is morally neutral. Joachim Peiper was valorous in battle.
Zenpundit – Agreed. If only all empires could be defeated as the Persians were at Salamis.
kende added these pithy words on 14 Mar 07 at 8:27 amJust saw 300 tonight. Was very, very, very disappointed. Livid is more like it.
I fully expected a cartoonish lack of realism. That’s ok. I love cartoons. I fully expected it to stray from history and to be light on philosophy and emotions. That’s fine. That’s what reading is for. But come on! They couldn’t even approach it with as much an eye for quality as you can find in your average anime? How about a bit of integrity? Maybe some appreciation of classical values? They couldn’t have even given us something a bit more like Gladiator? Or Titus? Or hey, how about Spiderman?? (the preview for 3 looked great”¦ but I should know better after all these miserable years to trust a trailer). I could have even lived with it if it was an intentional comedy. Army of Darkness”¦ Greeks vs. Persians”¦ Same difference, right?
Yeah, I’m a fool. I thought it was going to be like a not quite as good but still very enjoyable mix between.. say”¦ Serenity and Sin City. 1/5 history in a high octane feast for the eyes. Instead it was just utter garbage. I felt insulted. I still do. I think I will for a long time. (Still loathe George Lucas for Star Wars Ep. 3 and Thermopylae matters soooooooo much more.)
Only thing worse than a movie adaption of Gates of Fire not being made after this, is for it to be butchered just as it so obviously will be.
sunbin added these pithy words on 16 Mar 07 at 1:22 pmi lost my typing when i forgot to do the arithmetic :(
sunbin added these pithy words on 16 Mar 07 at 1:26 pmbasically, this is my view
1. ditto michael on salamis and marathon, esp salamis
2. thermopylae is an important event, it demonstrated the factor of time in a war, and paved way for salamis later.—and perhaps the praise for bravery
3. but i failed to understand why it could attract more attention than the celebrated salamis itself. the event itself is quite dull, lot of blood—but what can we expect from a comic drawer? and why should we blame child-targeted comics for making the good/evil dichotomy?
sunbin added these pithy words on 16 Mar 07 at 1:30 pmkende,
i thought this is on the sky-captain technology/budget :)
don’t expect too much on quality.
von Kaufman-Turkestansky added these pithy words on 16 Mar 07 at 2:49 pmJust came back from Malta, where I leared about the Great Seige of 1565, when a small number of Knights of St John and local Maltese held off Suleyman the Magnificent’s army for a whole summer, amid a huge bombardment. I recommend visiting Malta for history buffs, although it seems more pricey than Erbil!
kende added these pithy words on 16 Mar 07 at 7:03 pmSky Captain was better. 300 is an insult to the quality of comic books and the minds of children.
Michael added these pithy words on 16 Mar 07 at 9:30 pmActually, I’ve never heard that the original 300 comics were written for children. As with Japanese Manga, there’s a whole category of American comic books that are explicitely written for teenagers and adults, with themes to match; the usual term is graphic novel.
