How exactly would one “relocate” the Tallinn soviet memorial to Russia? Seems like a job for dynamite to me.

It warms my heart to see more recognition of how utterly foul communism was. Hope it leads to fewer nuts taking it up again as a banner for revolution.

Nepal Maoists, Communist parties in several countries (in Japan, the Democrative Labor Party in South Korea, parties in several Eastern European countries, etc), re-appearance of leftist terrorist groups in Greece and Italy, some professors and communist-influenced parties in the Middle East and elsewhere. Many in the West adhere to heavy-handed government (socialistic) policies while not liking the over the top heavy handedness of the Soviets.

To me, its somewhat a matter of degree. Some may not like communism, but still support a socialist nanny state.

Curzon: my impression of protests is that it’s usually the nutters that take over – i.e. A.N.S.W.E.R. taking over some of the antiwar protests, even though 99% of the antiwar protesters aren’t Marxists or whatever ANSWER is.

I went to Brown. There were Che shirts all over the place. None of the people wearing them were Communists, and they probably had no idea who Che was other than that he rode a motorbike around. Maybe Europeans who wear Che shirts are different, maybe he’s a cultural symbol of a different sort across the pond?

Perhaps Estonia could open a franchise of Stalin World.

Rommel – Interesting nickname.

I can’t blame the Estonians for despising the Soviets. But as the link in my last post indicates, they have a ways to go as far as coming to terms with Nazism.

I’m half East Prussian (not many of us who can say even that) but the fact is, Germany invaded the USSR (even though there is a strong possibility that it could have turned out to be the other way around), and as awful as Stalin was (and he and his gang were hideous) the Germans managed to give him only more legitimacy by what they did. And yes, there were atrocities committed by the Reds when they came back conquering. What would anyone expect after Leningrad, Stalingrad, Kursk, etc? Flowers and chocolate? What if there had been a battle in London where 647,000 were killed? What if there had been a seige of Boston or Montreal where a million starved to death? I am glad that recent documentaries (I saw one on National Geographic lately) commemorate the losses of the ordinary East Prussians and Pomeranians who suffered so much at the end of the war, but it seems like the story was told out of context – we don’t hear much about the Leningrad blockade anymore do we.

None, I repeat none of this, is to excuse the deportations and deprivations of the Estonians, Latvians and Lithuanians (and yes, East Prussian Germans like my dad) before, during and after the war. This is just a request for some context.

V K-T. Bravo your 8:26pm!

There are better examples of opponents of fascism than Erwin Rommel. For instance, men who fought to actually destroy fascism, rather than expand its power.

Here’s some basic facts:

1. The Soviets signed a pact with Nazi Germany in August 1939 called the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact which contained secret addenda that included the “Baltic countries of Finland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania” into the Soviet sphere of influence.

2. In September 1939, Stalin demanded Soviet army bases in all four countries via “mutal assistance pacts.” Only Finland refused, and Finland fought the Winter War, losing a significant portion of its territory, not to mention the 400,000+ people who had to be evacuated to Finland after the war. Meanwhile, all the Baltic Germans mysteriously decided to head home to the fatherland after seven centuries in Estonia. Oh, by the way, Germany invaded Poland the same month, as it proceded to take over its “sphere of influence.” Up until this point, Stalin + Hitler = Allies.

3. Even though the Estonians were dumb enough to allow Soviet military bases in Estonia, the Soviets still didn’t trust this nation of plucky, blond Nordic types (ie. fascists), and after some manufactured intrique (a Polish submarine escaped from Tallinn, the Estonians fired on it, the Soviets said they didn’t and that they helped it escape, Time magazine was there and said the Estonians were correct and the Soviets were full of shit) Stalin demanded unlimited number of troops to be stationed in Estonia and a new government. This was in June 1940. France was about to fall to Hitler at the time.

4. New elections were called, where local communists, who had never had any electoral support in the Estonian population, “won” something like 90 percent of the vote. They applied for, and were permitted to join the USSR in August 1940. In the first year of occupation, 8,000 Estonian intellectuals, politicians, poets – you name it, were arrested. As the Germans neared Estonia in 1941, the NKVD carried out an order to liquidate Estonia’s nationality, deporting 10,000 to Siberia, executing around 2,200, and removing 38,000 Estonian men to work camps, of whom about 40 percent died. It should be mentioned too that all Jewish cultural organizations were disbanded under the first Soviet occupation.

Most of Estonia’s pre-war political leaders perished at this time.

5. The Germans occupied Estonia in June 1941. Given the conditions, Estonians saw the Nazis as “liberators.” Remember, they didn’t have Internet, television, or Steven Spielberg in Soviet-occupied Estonia. They saw the Germans as … the Germans. Obviously, hopes to restore Estonian sovereignty failed under the German occupation. 8,000 people were killed, including many of Estonia’s pre-war Jewish population of around 4,000-5,000. Still, Estonians enlisted to form the 800-man Estnisches SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Bataillon Narwa in 1943. Also, the Nazis did not imprison or execute Estonia’s remaining political leaders who remained determined to win back independence.

6. In the Spring of 1944 (as the Allies advanced through Italy and prepared for the Normandy invasion) the Nazis drafted the 32,000-strong 20.Estnische SS-Freiwilligen-Division. This division fought on the eastern border of Estonia from Spring 1944 through mid-September, when Hitler authorized the full retreat from Estonia.

7. On Sept 18, 1944, Jüri Uluots, the last pre-occupation prime minister acted according to the Estonian constitution and appointed a new government in Tallinn, headed by Otto Tief. The Estonian flag flew in Tallinn until Sept. 22, when the Soviets retook Tallinn. It did not wave in Tallinn again until 1989.

The following is from http://www.okupatsioon.ee:

“Although the attempt to restore Estonian independence in September of 1944 did not succeed, the Otto Tief Government is an integral part of the de jure continuity of Estonia. The appointment of the Tief Government did not pass unnoticed abroad, where Finnish and Swedish newspapers reported on it.

“On September 21 and 22, the Estonian flag flew once again atop the [Pikk] Hermann Tower at the seat of government. In its own way, the [NKVD], the Soviet secret police, also gave its recognition to the Tief government. Being a member of the government was the main charge leveled against those members of the government who ended up in the clutches of that organization.

“Rudolf Penno and August Rei had left Estonia by the time they were appointed to the Tief Government. Johan Holberg, Johannes Klesment and Helmut Maandi succeeded in escaping from Estonia. Kaarel Liidak went underground in southern Estonia in April 1944, managed to evade detection by both the SD as well as the NKGB, and died in 1945. The NKGB and counterintelligence operatives of the Leningrad Front of the Red Army imprisoned the rest of the members of the Tief Government.

“Jaan Maide, Juhan Reigo and Endel Inglist were sentenced to death and executed in 1945; Oskar Gustavson was killed while trying to escape from interrogation in 1945; in most cases the rest were sentenced to prison for 10 year terms. Otto Tief (died 1976), Arnold Susi (died 1968), Juhan Kaarlimäe (died 1977) and Richard Ô“vel managed to return to Estonia; but the others all died in Russia. Voldemar Sumberg was freed from prison camp in 1960 and remained in the Kemerovo oblast in Russia, where he died. In 1969, Juhan Kaarlimäe was arrested again for some time. The other government members who returned to Estonian were kept under surveillance by the Soviet secret police.

“Jüri Uluots, who was gravely ill, was transported to Sweden on September 22, and died at the beginning of 1945. Before his death, he appointed August Rei has his successor, who, in 1953 in Oslo, appointed the Estonian Government in Exile. The exile government officially ceased its activities on October 7, 1992, when ““ in the Estonian House of Parliament ““ Heinrich Mark, the acting President of the Republic in exile, handed his credentials over to Lennart Meri, who had been elected President of the Republic.

Giustino: bad times, for countries big and small. The events you post deserve to be remembered just as much as all those who lost their lives in those bloody days. The best we can do for them is to figure out how to avoid repeating old horrors and not to try to out-compete those days.