A potentially explosive dispute in the City Too Busy to Hate is taking shape over a proposal to break Fulton County in two and split off Atlanta’s predominantly white, affluent suburbs to the north from some of the metropolitan area’s poorest, black neighborhoods.

Interesting that this is exactly what happened in New Jersey in the 1960s and 1970s, and the state now has more municipalities than Texas, despite the difference in size between the two states. The result that followed was a larger wealth gap between regions, a bigger de facto race gap, higher property taxes, and an explosion in the gap between rich and poor in regards to healthcare, education, property values, taxes, transportation services, and all the rest. Security is probably the more exciting factor to focus on, but its just one of many, many issues that come with this regional stratification of wealth.

St. Louis and Detroit offer examples of small (geographically) core cities surrounded by afluent suburbs and the effects of that.

In some inner core suburbs of St. Louis, like Clayton and University City, there are gated semi-gated communities without through streets, and limited access (one or two street entrances). These were built pre-WWII when St. Louis was even more racially polarized than now.

There are now some faily affluent, and mostly black suburbs north of St. Louis. St. Louis city itself offers a lot of core-gap examples. St. Louis and Detroit are also similar in that they both have a huge amount of housing stock that is largely vacant. (St. Louis City’s population is approx. 400,000. It should easily be able to house triple that). I have seen whole blocks of buildings demolished for their bricks. It’s a shame because there is really interesting architecture throughout the city. Some areas are revitalizing, but it’s the younger non-children crowd and most people in St. Louis still view living=lawn.

St. Louis and Detroit also share a high murder rate with an interesting twist. The victim is often likely to have just as long a criminal rap sheet as the killer. Outside the worst part of the Gap areas, the city is quite safe. Schools and mismanagement of city funds are a big issue and can literally mean the difference of $100,000 between a stately old home on the St. Louis side of Skinker Boulevard and one on the Clayton side (near Washington University).

A question for Kurt9; what will secession accomplish for Milton County that staying in Fulton County will not? They’ll still be driving the same roads as the Fultonites, depending on them for much of their labor, and vulnerable to crime committed by them.

Michael,

They will be able to lower their tax burden. I am not familiar with the area in question, but the common thread of the secession movements within the U.S. since the the turn of the century has been centered around two issue; 1) high taxes and 2) corruption by officials in charge of a massive political entity. Two examples are Killington, Vermont and Los Angeles, California. None of these movement have been very successful, but the recent uptick in secession might be interpreted as the beginning of a trend.

Regards,
TDL

Joe: Perhaps, I grew up in the South as well, and I hope you’ll forgive me for perhaps simplifying a complex situation. I still believe race relations are worse in the South, but not due to racism per se.

The reason is that when one looks at a map of the US and its racial make up, it’s no surprise that the majority of blacks still live in the South. In my hometown, they comprise about 55 to 60%.

Needless to say, the problem is that because the blacks were oppressed and treated bad for so long, they are far far behind the whites economically, educationally and culturally. This means that the real problems are not racial, but largely those mentioned above due to their having a very very late start equality wise.

Thus, the problems are indeed worse in the South numerically speaking.

One thing that hasn’t been mentioned thus far is that benign neglect (pretty much the situation in North Fulton) might be the best option. When Roswell (a newly formed city in North Fulton) incorporated (there by severing services from Fulton County) they raised taxes slightly, installed traffic cameras and elected people who had twenty years of pent up political agendas. I’m not sure secession would result in anything better happening in Milton.

It would be more representative of the residents, but I’m not convinced that anything would improve.

I don’t think it’s clear that crime and social trouble would increase with a decrease in program funding. Atlanta is a notoriously corrupt and poorly run city (thought it seems to have gotten better under the current mayor, Shirley Franklin) and Fulton County is pretty much the same. The people hurt would likely be the political patrons of the current system.

One of the greatest inventions of the human race is the wall. Not only does it serve a practical purpose but it makes a very loud political/social statement. A group of Chinese figured that out a long time ago. I like walls. Walls are good. We need more walls.

I dunno if “connectivity” is the answer here. These areas ARE connected. The problem is that outsiders (whether individuals or corporations) don’t want to go near them.

And as you briefly mentioned above, even if you somehow pour in money to force development in these marginalized areas, you don’t get rid of the marginalized people: they just move somewhere else.

The problem is cultural, not economic. You have to do something about kids wanting to be pimps, drug dealers and thieves. This isn’t like China, where sort-of-halfway-honest entrepreneurship is widespread.

One of the criticisms of Thomas P. M. Barnett’s ideas of “connectivity” and “closing the gap” is that is hasn’t worked that well here in the US.

It is absolutely cultural (and that ’s not code for “racial” either). THe suburbs are mostly conservative, family-focused and are not in the city for good reason…they don’t like the urban lifestyle. South Fulton county is a place you go to see a sporting event or take out of town guest to the Aquarium and IKEA. But is might as well be Chattanooga.

They just announced a 12,000 seat outdoor concert venue in Alpharetta (suburbs) so that we dont have to go downtown for concerts

“...splitting Fulton in two will not help the underlying problems…”

Depends what you think the underlying problem is. If it is paying a premium for services you never use, you secede and let some larger group of people bear the cost of sustaining the government-funded programs in the poor area. In that case, it not only helps but solves your problem. If the problem is the existence of poor people in a high crime and otherwise unattractive area, that is not a problem or set of problems, it is a condition whose existence does not imply a “solution”.

The “effort” of decades of large-scale social spending has not been ruined by corruption. That is like the old Stalinist idea that the Five Year Plan did not work because of concealed Capitalist “wreckers”. Like the FYPs, the social spending does not accomplish what it purports to do because it can’t, no matter how diligent or well-intentioned the people spending it or operating the programs may be.

What has been accomplshed is simply subsidizing failure, which, like anything which is subsidized, only gets you more of it.

A good article, and no doubt gated communities will become more common. But comparing US gated communities with medieval walled cities is drawing a long bow.

Medieval walled cities had hinterlands from which they drew food, water, labour and soldiers, and to which they supplied wares (think Machiavelli’s Florence, or the German cities within the Holy Roman Empire). Gated communities, and for that matter outer suburbs, will exist only as long as the wealthy denizens can buy cheap oil, drive to work in the cities in their SUVs, and buy their food in big supermarkets.

Peter
http://kotare.typepad.com/thestrategist

“Gated communities, and for that matter outer suburbs, will exist only as long as the wealthy denizens can buy cheap oil, drive to work in the cities in their SUVs, and buy their food in big supermarkets.”

They won’t be driving to the cities. The commutes will be intra-suburban. The cities are no longer the job generators. Joel Kotkin has been documenting this trend.

The Gap locations within the US are sufficiently localized and small that only communities adjacent to them need to be gated for security. The hinterlands here are relatively secure.

We are in nothing like the situation of the Medieval and Ancient walled cities. Not yet, anyway.

My brother-in-law lives in Atlantic Station in Atlanta. I can’t tell where that lies in the map above, but it is an urban redevelopment area that seems to be growing nicely. How does it factor into this discussion?

Sorry, read too quick and couldn’t tell that Atlanta wasn’t your hometown, but in regards to Atlanta, I would like to know what the commentators with knowledge of the situation have to say about Atlantic Station. Does no one from the north of town come to visit there? Is it having any impact on the rest of the area?

Atlantaic Station is on the Northern Tip of South Fulton. (north of Downtown Atlanta) is it very nice, very expensice and a place to take out of town guests to IKEA.

This is not where families live. This is where 20-somethings with high paying jobs live ($3-400K for a one-bedroom townhouse!). The schools are inner-city. The Atlantic Station dwellers are Liberal, Single, mostly no-children and work Downtown.

Milton County is Families, churches, shopping malls, franchise stores and restaurants, amazing public schools, conservative.

Atlanta traffic is a factor in this as well.

Atlantic Station is 25 miles from my home, in extreme North North Fulton, but it takes nearly a hour to get there due to traffic, and our rush hour is from 6 am – 9 am and 3 pm – 7 pm. During these times, it could take up to two hours to get to Atlantic Station….so we just don’t go.

I go downtown 5-6 times a month (I have friends who live intown). My neighbors go downtown (south Fulton) 5-6 times a YEAR at best.

The Atlantic Station model is moving it’s way North. Plans for this kind of work-shop-play area are being set up in North Fulton’s Roswell, Alpharetta and our exurbs of Forsyth County (North of North Fulton)

It’s not that there is a white flight or a wealth-flight to the suburbs. It’s a lifestyle and cultural thing. In Atlanta, inside the perrimeter (Highway I-285 is our beltline) is one lifestyle and outside of the perimeter is another. South Fulton is inside, North Fulton is outside, simple as that.

Atlanta is a bit of a domestic geographic/political anomaly. The city itself is only 400K+ residents, but the metro area has over 4 million. These 4 million are spread over 5 separate counties. (Or 17 counties, depending on which entity you consult.) Within this mix is Fulton County, which is almost 60 miles long from north to south and bisected in the middle by the city of Atlanta. This diffusion of political power vis-à-vis the population makes it impossible to govern the region with any kind of coherence. (For example, the 5 counties have three separate transit systems between them.)

The original article calling the situation explosive is a pathetic overstatement. As previously mentioned this has been afoot for years. It’s only recently gained traction because of a Republican majority in the state legislature for the first time since Reconstruction. The biggest driving factor in this movement is a desire for better responsiveness from local government. No one serious is under the illusion that simply redrawing and renaming lines on a map will lower crime or make them safer.

- What happens to the schools built in North Fulton? Can a Milton School System be formed? – Would a Milton School System have to buy existing schools from Fulton County Schools? – If SPLOST III passes will Milton residents continue paying the 1% sales tax to Fulton Schools until it expires in 2012? – What are the boundaries on the southern side of Milton are you including Buckhead? – If Buckhead is included would the schools be purchased from Atlanta Public Schools? – How do you handle the all of the bonds predicated on the existence of Fulton County? Won’t they all need to be restructured? – Will taxes in Milton County be reduced or frozen by statute? – How much will it cost to build Milton jails, courts, sheriff’s office and libraries? – Would county facilities need to be purchased from Fulton County like Sandy Springs paid for Fire Department buildings? – What happens with the contribution to MARTA from what would be Milton. Does it go away? – What happens to the funding for Grady? – Will the referendum to form the county be a countywide Fulton vote?