Sonagi, if they hate us because of how we use such freedoms, then screw them. I don’t want to surrender my freedom to publish cartoons (if I were a cartoonist) and Bush was freely elected by the American people. It really doesn’t matter what anybody else says about it. If this is why they hate us, they can go right on hating us, cause there’s no way I nor many others are going to give up such freedoms.

It’s interesting that Jason knew my username is Korean. Methinks he’s no high schooler but a regular commenter trolling for mischief.

People do not hate us for our freedoms, but they may hate how we use those freedoms, such as freedom of speech to publish cartoons or franchise to re-elect the man who invaded Iraq.

That is what I thought you were going for. The Kurdish people I am sure are dissappointed, but the Kurds in the government along with the Shia helped push this along. They need to blame thier own elected officials for any “short-comings” they may feel. I still doubt they will feel marginalized.

Jason has some good points, a lot of anti-Americanism/anti-westernism is due to the freedoms our nation offers us. Look at Iran, the moderates want to be like us, and the fundamentalists that fear losing thier power if they were to become like us, hate us.
And destablization (which is a form of system perturbation), can come in different forms and help bring political change.
He’s looking at it through a different sight glass is all.

Jason, it was you, wasn’t it, who sent a link on a previous thread to an article by Jerome Corsi that had a link at the bottom of the page to 9/11 conspiracy theories?

Are your parents out for new-years? Babysitter being nice tonight?

My views reflect the majority of Americans. The reason why we support the War on Terror is to fight those who “Hate OUR FREEDOMS”. It’s the reason why we went into Iraq, and now give Iraq the gift of democracy. Do you also hate our freedoms? Remember we are data-basing the views of our friends and enemies. I say again: Do you hate our freedoms?

People like you believe 9-11 was an inside job with Muslims used as pastys. If you want to believe such things, then why don’t you go live in North Korea with your Dear Leader. Remember, we have intelligence monitors watching blogs, heroically assessing who supports America and who doesn’t.

Don’t forget: They hate our Freedom. Do YOU hate our freedom?

http://www.vidmax.com/index.php/videos/view/204

It doesn’t actually depict his actual execution, but you can see the body afterwards.

On an unrelated topic and speaking of interesting videos floating around. For anyone who watches Japanese TV, who is the trained gaijin monkey in this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95Njb3sG-7U&eurl=

Also can anyone tell me why a “discussion”, and I will use this term loosely, on what should be a fairly serious topic has the format of a gameshow, even including silly sound effects? They even have audience laugh tracks. Is this normal for Japanese TV?

Prosecutors bring the case they can prove. You only need to get one death sentence. That is something the Iraqis will need to learn.

If the situation ever settles down and some kind of democratic or liberal Iraqi government survives, then they should have a “truth commission” like the South Africans had, or something along those lines, to document the crimes of the Baathist regime. That is a big “if”. I’m afraid it will be a miracle if they ever get to that stage.

Tom, it’s not the execution that will miff the Kurds. Quite the contrary I should think. It is the lack of a trial for Saddams slaughter of over 100,000 Kurds.

There should never have even been an attempt at a civil trial in this case. Civil trials are designed to deal with crimes which occur in a society with a functioning system of law and order. These systems of law and order generally prevent (through regulation and preventative policing) atrocities of the magnitude that Saddam was responsible for. To submit Saddam to a civil trial is to pretend that such conditions applied to his rule, and I believe this is both deluded and dangerous.

I said at the beginning of the war that Saddam would become a figure of sympathy for opponents of the war and as usual even my cynicism is not enough to keep with the reality.

I didn’t think anybody still believed that.

Saddam hated us because of our freedoms and worked with Osama Bin Laden to develop Weapons of Mass Destruction. Thank, Mary mother of Jesus … he’s dead.

Hopefully his death will NOT stop the violence.

In order to spread democracy to alien cultures, there needs to be destabilization—such as an extended civil war in order to traumatize Iraqis into gratefully complying with the newly installed government. This is called creative destruction, and a necessary means toward a good end. The Pinochet strategy. It’s all good even if it looks bad. Believe me. Or, just ask the bloggers on this site.

People don’t change unless they are destabilized, degraded, and demoralized … only then will they seek something better.

Hanging Saddam is our boys doing psychological warfare: pointing to death of the old and dysfunctional, and hope for a new strategic partnership between America and a sustainable Iraq. It’s all about democracy and freedom.

I am not sure I understand why you think the Kurds are going to be pissed off. He brutally killed many of them along with many Shia and Sunni that disagreed with him. Unless you think it is because they didn’t get their chance to judge him.
Saddam was a ruthless leader. He was the first (and hopefully last) leader to use nerve agents on his own people. Everybody feared him, including Ba’athists.
I do not think the Iraqi people feel the execution marginalized his atrocities. If anything it may have reinforced the fact that the country still has some semblance of justice and a way of achieving it.

Moloch,

Iraqis have their own rule of law. It doesn’t neccesarrily fit with western ideas of law, but it is theirs. Was it political? Hell yea it was political. I have to say that I agree with Dan tdaxp:

“Ultimately, I think the legal justification of his death matters much less than the fact of his death. (Think of Sadr et al’s statements that he should just be beheaded, or surrendered to some militia or the other.)”Â?

From what I take from the Iraqi people I work with, they are glad this part of their history has ended. They feel he got his just deserts. They also feel he got off very easy by just being hung. So far the violence here has not escalated (hopefully it doesn’t). This could be because for the Kurds and Sunnis Eid-ul Adha has started. It starts for the Shia tomorrow. Why two different days? I have no idea. The traditional start of Eid-ul Adha is the day after people climb a mountain (I don’t know what mountain or why or where for that matter. I just heard about it today.), which was yesterday.

This whole thing isn’t going to make the world safer. It is not going to stop the sectarian killings here. It is not going to stop the IEDs and sniper fire that kills soldiers. I think it may give most Iraqis a sense of closure and help them to move on. If this gives the Iraqi people hope, then I’m not standing in their way. If it’s one thing they need, it’s hope.

Now the world will finally be safe for Democracy… and children of various races will hold hands in global harmony. Things are looking up!

And you know what? The next generation of little ba’athists are going to pull exactly the sort of “it was a set up!” nonsense that Serbia is pulling now. No trial, no decent documentation or evidence of crimes produced, no resolution = a generation of apologists a few years down the line.

And, yeah, to my understanding, he’s only been convicted for Shi’a massacres, right? That’s not going to please his other victims (as someone already pointed out).

And, while a lot of people will say “Yeah! Good riddance!”, thinking realistically here, is the execution of saddam really in anway a vaguely positive thing, apart from indulging a brute animal impulse for retribution? He wasn’t in anyway a threat any more, his actual support base is pretty much eradicated, he’d lost his “big man” aura…not a danger. So…what has it achieved?

Bear in mind the Iraqi President, Jalal Talabani, founded the PUK which bore the brunt of Saddams Anfar assault.