Comments on: The Japanese Neocon http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/ Speak Victorian, Think Pagan Thu, 18 Mar 2010 04:27:07 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Darin http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-129217 Darin Mon, 25 Sep 2006 11:02:48 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-129217 <blockquote>Onishi's tenure as all-around clown here in Tokyo is supposed to finish up in the next 6 months, and we can only hope the NYT finds someone a little less-buffoonish to replace him.</blockquote> Are you going to apply for the position to replace him, or should I? ;) Onishi’s tenure as all-around clown here in Tokyo is supposed to finish up in the next 6 months, and we can only hope the NYT finds someone a little less-buffoonish to replace him.

Are you going to apply for the position to replace him, or should I? ;)

]]> By: Curzon http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-129139 Curzon Mon, 25 Sep 2006 07:33:22 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-129139 SB: Onishi used the word with the specific intent of conjuring up spectres of WWII's Imperial Japan, and loaded the word accordingly. SB: Onishi used the word with the specific intent of conjuring up spectres of WWII’s Imperial Japan, and loaded the word accordingly.

]]> By: sun bin http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-129118 sun bin Mon, 25 Sep 2006 06:58:53 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-129118 along curzon's note, does Onashi's use of "imperial" mean anything in practice or reality? he was only trying to show us the "scope" as in "full strength", which is comparable to that of the imperial period. i do not see what is wrong with such comparison. well, i can compare the Germany military ability as 'as strong as' in the third reich. but that does not necessarily mean that it is reverted to the third reich. along curzon’s note, does Onashi’s use of “imperial” mean anything in practice or reality? he was only trying to show us the “scope” as in “full strength”, which is comparable to that of the imperial period.

i do not see what is wrong with such comparison. well, i can compare the Germany military ability as ‘as strong as’ in the third reich. but that does not necessarily mean that it is reverted to the third reich.

]]> By: Curzon http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-129085 Curzon Mon, 25 Sep 2006 05:37:53 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-129085 Also, that all things regarding the royal family in Japan are translated into English as "Imperial" doesn't mean anything in practice or reality. Japan's "Emperor" has less political power than any other incumbent royal family in the world. Also, that all things regarding the royal family in Japan are translated into English as “Imperial” doesn’t mean anything in practice or reality. Japan’s “Emperor” has less political power than any other incumbent royal family in the world.

]]> By: Two Cents http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-129058 Two Cents Mon, 25 Sep 2006 04:43:09 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-129058 Curzon, I won't have my hopes up too high. He will be sorely missed at 2-channel, though. Sun bin, All usage of "imperial" has been dropped after the war. Just as there are no more Imperial Tokyo University or the Imperial Diet, the new military will not have the name "imperial" in it. Come on, you know it's Onishi to tactic to make it look as though Japan is returning to its militaristic past. Abe, I hope, can push ahead with the reform of the constitution so that Japan can legitimately have a military and be a fully mutual ally for the US. It's not a matter of who is quoted. You can bet that if Onishi had 10 quotes from people who praises Kishi for his role in strengthening the Japan-US alliance, he would still choose Tanaka's quote. Like Curzon said, Kishi was probably the most pro-US prime ministers. Do you even get a hint of that in Onishi's article. No. Thus, I conclude it to biased. As for Abe's stance on history, he simply states that history should be left up to historians in a democracy where people have the freedom of speech and thought, and should not be used as tools for politics. Curzon,
I won’t have my hopes up too high. He will be sorely missed at 2-channel, though.

Sun bin,
All usage of “imperial” has been dropped after the war. Just as there are no more Imperial Tokyo University or the Imperial Diet, the new military will not have the name “imperial” in it. Come on, you know it’s Onishi to tactic to make it look as though Japan is returning to its militaristic past. Abe, I hope, can push ahead with the reform of the constitution so that Japan can legitimately have a military and be a fully mutual ally for the US.

It’s not a matter of who is quoted. You can bet that if Onishi had 10 quotes from people who praises Kishi for his role in strengthening the Japan-US alliance, he would still choose Tanaka’s quote. Like Curzon said, Kishi was probably the most pro-US prime ministers. Do you even get a hint of that in Onishi’s article. No. Thus, I conclude it to biased.

As for Abe’s stance on history, he simply states that history should be left up to historians in a democracy where people have the freedom of speech and thought, and should not be used as tools for politics.

]]> By: sun bin http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-129010 sun bin Mon, 25 Sep 2006 03:11:18 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-129010 re:2c 1) not an empire? you mean there is no emperor any more? anyway, Nishi was comparing the scope of Japan's military, not the imperial structure. but who knows? japan also ceased to own offensice force since 1945 but it is probably fair to say that this would be abandoned soon? 2) the Kishi note is quoted from Shusei Tanaka 'a professor at Fukuyama University and a former Liberal Democratic lawmaker'. i guess Abe could easily clear his link from the Class-A part by a simple statement, if he choose to. i.e. speak about the legitimacy of FE Tribunal, unprevented by such link. (Kishi should thank the Tribunal because it acquitted him -- doesn't that demonstrate 'fairness' to his perspective?) re:2c

1) not an empire? you mean there is no emperor any more?
anyway, Nishi was comparing the scope of Japan’s military, not the imperial structure. but who knows? japan also ceased to own offensice force since 1945 but it is probably fair to say that this would be abandoned soon?

2) the Kishi note is quoted from Shusei Tanaka ‘a professor at Fukuyama University and a former Liberal Democratic lawmaker’.
i guess Abe could easily clear his link from the Class-A part by a simple statement, if he choose to. i.e. speak about the legitimacy of FE Tribunal, unprevented by such link.
(Kishi should thank the Tribunal because it acquitted him — doesn’t that demonstrate ‘fairness’ to his perspective?)

]]> By: Curzon http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-128972 Curzon Mon, 25 Sep 2006 02:12:05 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-128972 2C: Seriously. Kishi was one of the most pro-US Prime Ministers in post-war history. Onishi's tenure as all-around clown here in Tokyo is supposed to finish up in the next 6 months, and we can only hope the NYT finds someone a little less-buffoonish to replace him. 2C: Seriously. Kishi was one of the most pro-US Prime Ministers in post-war history.

Onishi’s tenure as all-around clown here in Tokyo is supposed to finish up in the next 6 months, and we can only hope the NYT finds someone a little less-buffoonish to replace him.

]]> By: Two Cents http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-128963 Two Cents Mon, 25 Sep 2006 01:58:19 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-128963 Onishi always make me laugh. One reason I no longer take the NYT seriously. >see the return of a full-strength imperial army If my memory serves me right, I think we ceased to be Imperial Japan in 1945. >Nobusuke Kishi, a wartime cabinet member imprisoned as a Class A war crimes suspect but never tried Onishi really likes to highlight this point. He has pointed this out in a previous article. Yet, he fails to recognize that, in Japan, people largely remember Kishi as the prime minister who formed the New Security Treaty with the US, against fierce and violent opposition from students threatening to kill him, and created the foundation of today's Japan-US alliance. Until Asahi started pursuing their anti-Abe strategy, the majority of the Japanese had mostly forgotten about the Class-A criminal part. Onishi always make me laugh. One reason I no longer take the NYT seriously.

>see the return of a full-strength imperial army
If my memory serves me right, I think we ceased to be Imperial Japan in 1945.

>Nobusuke Kishi, a wartime cabinet member imprisoned as a Class A war crimes suspect but never tried
Onishi really likes to highlight this point. He has pointed this out in a previous article. Yet, he fails to recognize that, in Japan, people largely remember Kishi as the prime minister who formed the New Security Treaty with the US, against fierce and violent opposition from students threatening to kill him, and created the foundation of today’s Japan-US alliance. Until Asahi started pursuing their anti-Abe strategy, the majority of the Japanese had mostly forgotten about the Class-A criminal part.

]]> By: Joe http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-128940 Joe Mon, 25 Sep 2006 01:28:34 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-128940 <a href="http://news.scotsman.com/international.cfm?id=1410482006" rel="nofollow">Look out, Abe! Norimitsu is on your case!</a> Look out, Abe! Norimitsu is on your case!

]]> By: adamu http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-128938 adamu Mon, 25 Sep 2006 01:27:15 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-128938 Just a quick note - Fujiwara has aged something like 10 years since that photo was taken. She still looks pretty good and all, but it's a far cry from her days as an Asahi Super Dry girl. Just a quick note – Fujiwara has aged something like 10 years since that photo was taken. She still looks pretty good and all, but it’s a far cry from her days as an Asahi Super Dry girl.

]]> By: sun bin http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-127747 sun bin Thu, 21 Sep 2006 22:41:07 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-127747 "the livedoor link":http://news.livedoor.com/webapp/journal/cid__2473869/detail the livedoor link

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]]> By: Joe http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-127537 Joe Thu, 21 Sep 2006 10:10:19 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-127537 Interesting rumor, but it looks like she's a peace activist and an Article 9 fan, so I'm not sure that the LDP would want her casting votes... Interesting rumor, but it looks like she’s a peace activist and an Article 9 fan, so I’m not sure that the LDP would want her casting votes…

]]> By: sun bin http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-127468 sun bin Thu, 21 Sep 2006 04:59:03 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-127468 You guys will love this, the newest rumour is the actress Norika Fujiwara will be representing LDP in Tokyo for "senator", as part of the LDP's "babe strategy" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norika_Fujiwara !http://news.eastday.com/eastday/news/news/node4948/node36226/images/00157928.jpg! You guys will love this, the newest rumour is the actress Norika Fujiwara will be representing LDP in Tokyo for “senator”, as part of the LDP’s “babe strategy”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norika_Fujiwara

]]> By: sun bin http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-127462 sun bin Thu, 21 Sep 2006 04:06:54 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-127462 Curzon, since it was a HK based newspaper (Ming Pao) in Chinese. the "Ëœrelevant' chapters summarized/quoted are chinese-related. nothing new, mostly the yasukuni/textbook/ history/remiliatarization mess we have already heard of. but he has made one interesting point regarding sino-japanese relationship (not new either, i suppose), that economic and politics should be separated. i know this is what has been happening all these times, but it would be nice if the two sides can agree on it openly. just need to find the right time and right pretext, i guess. Curzon,

since it was a HK based newspaper (Ming Pao) in Chinese. the “ÃÅrelevant’ chapters summarized/quoted are chinese-related. nothing new, mostly the yasukuni/textbook/ history/remiliatarization mess we have already heard of.

but he has made one interesting point regarding sino-japanese relationship (not new either, i suppose), that economic and politics should be separated. i know this is what has been happening all these times, but it would be nice if the two sides can agree on it openly.
just need to find the right time and right pretext, i guess.

]]> By: sun bin http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-127460 sun bin Thu, 21 Sep 2006 04:05:17 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-127460 Curzon, since it was a HK based newspaper (Ming Pao) in Chinese. the 'relevant' chapters summarized/quoted are chinese-related. allthough yasukuni/textbook/history/remiliatarization mess we have already heard of. but he has made one interesting point regarding sino-japanese relationship (not new either, i suppose), that economic and politics should be separated. i know this is what is happening all these times, but it would be nice if the two sides can agree on it openly. just need to find the right time and right pretext. Curzon,

since it was a HK based newspaper (Ming Pao) in Chinese. the ‘relevant’ chapters summarized/quoted are chinese-related. allthough yasukuni/textbook/history/remiliatarization mess we have already heard of.

but he has made one interesting point regarding sino-japanese relationship (not new either, i suppose), that economic and politics should be separated. i know this is what is happening all these times, but it would be nice if the two sides can agree on it openly.
just need to find the right time and right pretext.

]]> By: Joe http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-127442 Joe Thu, 21 Sep 2006 02:50:37 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-127442 Q: What do you call a Central Asian militarist? A: A neo-Khan Q: What do you call a Central Asian militarist?

A: A neo-Khan

]]> By: Younghusband http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-127401 Younghusband Thu, 21 Sep 2006 00:36:39 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-127401 I would disagree. I think the point that Dan makes is the closeness between Idealists and Neocons. There is a difference between having a strong hegemon that keeps the balance in your favour (a realist outlook) and thinking that you can change the international system (and idealist outlook) and it is your duty to spread your type of governance around the world. Thus, I think that Abe is a nationalist realist, not a neocon. I would disagree. I think the point that Dan makes is the closeness between Idealists and Neocons. There is a difference between having a strong hegemon that keeps the balance in your favour (a realist outlook) and thinking that you can change the international system (and idealist outlook) and it is your duty to spread your type of governance around the world. Thus, I think that Abe is a nationalist realist, not a neocon.

]]> By: Curzon http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-127400 Curzon Thu, 21 Sep 2006 00:28:21 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-127400 SB: I read the book last month. It is predictably bland for what you'd expect from a person ready to assume office (think of "A Charge to Keep"). I'd be interested to see what chapters were select-translated. YH: If we use Nexon's bookmark, both Koizumi and Abe are neocons -- they want a powerful, even extra-powerful U.S. to be the big bully on the block of world affairs. They think the UN is pretty damn useless, although they would never say so in public, and their desire for US power is based on a rational and realist analysis of their national interest -- the desire to keep the US strong, so strong that it's the distant "offshore balancer" of the Far East that can keep the lid on an aggressive North Korea and an growing China. SB: I read the book last month. It is predictably bland for what you’d expect from a person ready to assume office (think of “A Charge to Keep”). I’d be interested to see what chapters were select-translated.

YH: If we use Nexon’s bookmark, both Koizumi and Abe are neocons — they want a powerful, even extra-powerful U.S. to be the big bully on the block of world affairs. They think the UN is pretty damn useless, although they would never say so in public, and their desire for US power is based on a rational and realist analysis of their national interest — the desire to keep the US strong, so strong that it’s the distant “offshore balancer” of the Far East that can keep the lid on an aggressive North Korea and an growing China.

]]> By: Younghusband http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-127337 Younghusband Wed, 20 Sep 2006 19:32:14 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-127337 Re: Neocon label. Yeah, I had figured you picked it up in the Japanese press. I have seen it there before, but knowing how Japanese mangles loanwords I usually leave it alone. In English I expect it to be the type described by "Dan Nexon":http://duckofminerva.blogspot.com/2005/07/john-ikenberrys-pissed.html. But like Joe says, the term is now loaded. Re: Neocon label. Yeah, I had figured you picked it up in the Japanese press. I have seen it there before, but knowing how Japanese mangles loanwords I usually leave it alone. In English I expect it to be the type described by Dan Nexon. But like Joe says, the term is now loaded.

]]> By: sun bin http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-127294 sun bin Wed, 20 Sep 2006 16:02:31 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-127294 1) he has written a book, I heard. (I saw some Chinese translation on the 'relevant' chapters) I suppose it was also reported in English media? 2) "headed to Japan and attacking their base", whether it is US Base of no, it is Japan's soveriegn territory, isn't it? It is within its current constitution of 'self defense', right? Or is there some delicate legal terms about these Bases? 1) he has written a book, I heard. (I saw some Chinese translation on the ‘relevant’ chapters) I suppose it was also reported in English media?

2) “headed to Japan and attacking their base”, whether it is US Base of no, it is Japan’s soveriegn territory, isn’t it? It is within its current constitution of ’self defense’, right? Or is there some delicate legal terms about these Bases?

]]> By: Joe http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-127277 Joe Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:56:55 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-127277 I, too, think of the label as indicative of nationalist/realist/militarist foreign policy positions. The problem, of course, is that it's a loaded term and people like to use it to refer to all sorts of ideologies. I, too, think of the label as indicative of nationalist/realist/militarist foreign policy positions. The problem, of course, is that it’s a loaded term and people like to use it to refer to all sorts of ideologies.

]]> By: Curzon http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-127244 Curzon Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:44:24 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-127244 Sorry, I originally had several links to Japanese articles, one of which called him a Japanese neocon, but I ultimately removed them because of the fear of alienating English-language readers. You can read several such articles "here":http://www.janjan.jp/government/0609/0609070834/1.php and "here.":http://japanese.joins.com/article/article.php?aid=69170&servcode=200&sectcode=200　　 This brings us to the fundamental disagreement of what is a "neocon." No, he's not Jewish or a former Trotskyist. But here in Japan, he is young, hawkish, pro-US, and pulls no punches when it comes to China or North Korea. In the local context, that makes him the quintessential neocon. Sorry, I originally had several links to Japanese articles, one of which called him a Japanese neocon, but I ultimately removed them because of the fear of alienating English-language readers. You can read several such articles here and here.;£ââ‰â¬Ã£ââ‰â¬

This brings us to the fundamental disagreement of what is a “neocon.” No, he’s not Jewish or a former Trotskyist. But here in Japan, he is young, hawkish, pro-US, and pulls no punches when it comes to China or North Korea. In the local context, that makes him the quintessential neocon.

]]> By: Younghusband http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-127236 Younghusband Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:25:49 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-127236 Curzon, why do you call him a "neocon"? From the statements above it looks like he is just a plain old conservative. Nationalist to be sure, but not neoconservative. Curzon, why do you call him a “neocon”? From the statements above it looks like he is just a plain old conservative. Nationalist to be sure, but not neoconservative.

]]> By: yeolchae http://cominganarchy.com/2006/09/20/the-japanese-neocon/comment-page-1/#comment-127221 yeolchae Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:24:32 +0000 http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2148#comment-127221 I think he will be a more predictable leader than Koizumi but ultimately an inferior one. Also, I would not be surprised if Japan becomes even more isolated diplomatically from the rest of Asia during his term. I think he will be a more predictable leader than Koizumi but ultimately an inferior one.

Also, I would not be surprised if Japan becomes even more isolated diplomatically from the rest of Asia during his term.

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