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	<title>Comments on: The Terror&#160;Tree</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/</link>
	<description>Speak Victorian, Think Pagan</description>
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		<title>By: Jimmy the Dhimmi</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-117494</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy the Dhimmi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 19:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2106#comment-117494</guid>
		<description>Man, If I were a terrorist, I would be calling in false alarms to every airport in America, every day.  Every high value civilian target in every city.  All you need is a few guys in some remote country to do it.  Every target has a phone number you can get right out of the book.

After a while, people would get sick of evacuating and change the protocols, so even if the effect of disrupting the economy of the west peters out, now our guard is down and we are more vaulnerable to a real threat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, If I were a terrorist, I would be calling in false alarms to every airport in America, every day.  Every high value civilian target in every city.  All you need is a few guys in some remote country to do it.  Every target has a phone number you can get right out of the book.</p>

<p>After a while, people would get sick of evacuating and change the protocols, so even if the effect of disrupting the economy of the west peters out, now our guard is down and we are more vaulnerable to a real threat.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: What the Heck was I Thinking!? :: Armies of Davids v. Loose Networks :: August :: 2006</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-117440</link>
		<dc:creator>What the Heck was I Thinking!? :: Armies of Davids v. Loose Networks :: August :: 2006</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Aug 2006 09:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2106#comment-117440</guid>
		<description>[...] Tom Barnett points to a post at The Coming Anarchy. While the post is interesting (I don&#8217;t buy the specific logic proposed in it), One of the comments caught my eye:&#160; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Tom Barnett points to a post at The Coming Anarchy. While the post is interesting (I don&#8217;t buy the specific logic proposed in it), One of the comments caught my eye:&nbsp; [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John Robb</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-117326</link>
		<dc:creator>John Robb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2106#comment-117326</guid>
		<description>BTW guys.  That quote about Shiite militiamen is old and reflects a post I made two years ago.  My conclusion was that this choice would come back to haunt us since the controlled chaos we created by making this choice would eventually unravel into full blown chaos.

That analysis has been confirmed.  The US didn&#039;t take the opportunity to withdraw during this window of controlled chaos.  Now it is in the middle of a civil war.

Here&#039;s the original brief for those that are interested.

&quot;Loyalist Paramilitaries&quot;  
October 3, 2004
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2004/10/solution_decent.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="caps">BTW </span>guys.  That quote about Shiite militiamen is old and reflects a post I made two years ago.  My conclusion was that this choice would come back to haunt us since the controlled chaos we created by making this choice would eventually unravel into full blown chaos.</p>

<p>That analysis has been confirmed.  The US didn&#8217;t take the opportunity to withdraw during this window of controlled chaos.  Now it is in the middle of a civil war.</p>

<p>Here&#8217;s the original brief for those that are interested.</p>

<p>&#8220;Loyalist Paramilitaries&#8221;  <br />
October 3, 2004<br />
<a href="http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2004/10/solution_decent.html">http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2004/10/solution_decent.html</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: John Robb</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-117291</link>
		<dc:creator>John Robb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 10:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2106#comment-117291</guid>
		<description>This is excellent Chirol. 

Note:  I put quite a bit of thinking/models for resiliency through decentralization into the book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is excellent Chirol. </p>

<p>Note:  I put quite a bit of thinking/models for resiliency through decentralization into the book.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: michael</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-117273</link>
		<dc:creator>michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 02:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2106#comment-117273</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; This solution would require renouncing the state&#039;s monopoly on violence by using Shiite and Kurdish militias as a counterinsurgency. This is similar to the strategy used to halt the insurgencies in El Salvador in the 1980&#039;s and Colombia in the 1990&#039;s. &lt;/i&gt;


I wonder if this would also work with the American public in our homeland defense.  I&#039;m thinking of the &lt;i&gt;Army of Davids vs. the Jihadi&#039;s loose network&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> This solution would require renouncing the state&#8217;s monopoly on violence by using Shiite and Kurdish militias as a counterinsurgency. This is similar to the strategy used to halt the insurgencies in El Salvador in the 1980&#8217;s and Colombia in the 1990&#8217;s. </i></p>


<p>I wonder if this would also work with the American public in our homeland defense.  I&#8217;m thinking of the <i>Army of Davids vs. the Jihadi&#8217;s loose network</i></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: PurpleSlog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Saturday Night Linkspasm 1</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-117164</link>
		<dc:creator>PurpleSlog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Saturday Night Linkspasm 1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Aug 2006 03:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2106#comment-117164</guid>
		<description>[...] Coming Anarchyy presents The Terro Tree - Now with Pretty graphics! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Coming Anarchyy presents The Terro Tree &#8211; Now with Pretty graphics! [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: sun bin</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-117159</link>
		<dc:creator>sun bin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Aug 2006 19:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2106#comment-117159</guid>
		<description>see &quot;this&quot;:http://www.wondermark.com/d/220.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>see <a href="http://www.wondermark.com/d/220.html">this</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mark safranski</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-117084</link>
		<dc:creator>mark safranski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Aug 2006 02:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2106#comment-117084</guid>
		<description>excellent post Chirol !

Look for a response sometime Sunday on resiliency....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>excellent post Chirol !</p>

<p>Look for a response sometime Sunday on resiliency&#8230;.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Gollios</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-117024</link>
		<dc:creator>Gollios</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Aug 2006 13:55:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2106#comment-117024</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;This solution would require renouncing the state&#039;s monopoly on violence by using Shiite and Kurdish militias as a counterinsurgency. This is similar to the strategy used to halt the insurgencies in El Salvador in the 1980&#039;s and Colombia in the 1990&#039;s.&lt;/i&gt;

The rub comes from trying to reintegrate these surrogate forces into a stable security apparatus once the dirty work is done.  Look at the example of the Afghan mujahadeen or (potentially) the janjaweed in Sudan.  I don&#039;t think the government in Khartorum has the will or means to bring them to heel, and armed nomadic mobs whose main source of entertainment is raiding may end up destabalising the government that originally set them loose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This solution would require renouncing the state&#8217;s monopoly on violence by using Shiite and Kurdish militias as a counterinsurgency. This is similar to the strategy used to halt the insurgencies in El Salvador in the 1980&#8217;s and Colombia in the 1990&#8217;s.</i></p>

<p>The rub comes from trying to reintegrate these surrogate forces into a stable security apparatus once the dirty work is done.  Look at the example of the Afghan mujahadeen or (potentially) the janjaweed in Sudan.  I don&#8217;t think the government in Khartorum has the will or means to bring them to heel, and armed nomadic mobs whose main source of entertainment is raiding may end up destabalising the government that originally set them loose.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Kirk H. Sowell</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-116930</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk H. Sowell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Aug 2006 04:27:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2106#comment-116930</guid>
		<description>Curzon: I think that as long as the organizations are around and trying, some disruption of normal life will happen and I don&#039;t think that we should harp on &quot;the terrorists are winning if we change the way we live.&quot; War always changes the way you live, and it isn&#039;t like they are just going to give up if they see people living their lives as normal, that isn&#039;t how their thinking works. We need to get beyond this.

Chirol: Two comments - one, I think the tree works, except I don&#039;t see why the arrow for &quot;Failed-No Publicity&quot; goes to System Disruption. If they neither succeed nor get publicity, that seems like a total failure on their part.

Two - I very much disagree with Robb&#039;s suggestion about Shia militias as a counterinsurgency in Iraq, for a variety of reasons. First, the domestic Sunni insurgents are responding very positively to Maliki&#039;s reconciliation initiative, and don&#039;t want to lay down their arms primarily because of the Shia militias.

Second, the Shia militiamen, especially the Mahdi Army, are terrorists themselves and are more of problem right now than the native Sunni insurgents.

Third, this resorting to vigilantisim would defeat the point of establishing the rule of law and empowering the Shia through the regular army, both to intimidate the Sunnis and keep the Shia in the state. This is more important than anything. We&#039;ve made a lot of progress, and taking down the Shia militias is one of the main challenges ahead.

Anyone wanting to understand the dynamics of the situation in Iraq better should, I humbly suggest, check out my current writings on the subject at &lt;a href=&quot;http://threatswatch.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ThreatsWatch&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curzon: I think that as long as the organizations are around and trying, some disruption of normal life will happen and I don&#8217;t think that we should harp on &#8220;the terrorists are winning if we change the way we live.&#8221; War always changes the way you live, and it isn&#8217;t like they are just going to give up if they see people living their lives as normal, that isn&#8217;t how their thinking works. We need to get beyond this.</p>

<p>Chirol: Two comments &#8211; one, I think the tree works, except I don&#8217;t see why the arrow for &#8220;Failed-No Publicity&#8221; goes to System Disruption. If they neither succeed nor get publicity, that seems like a total failure on their part.</p>

<p>Two &#8211; I very much disagree with Robb&#8217;s suggestion about Shia militias as a counterinsurgency in Iraq, for a variety of reasons. First, the domestic Sunni insurgents are responding very positively to Maliki&#8217;s reconciliation initiative, and don&#8217;t want to lay down their arms primarily because of the Shia militias.</p>

<p>Second, the Shia militiamen, especially the Mahdi Army, are terrorists themselves and are more of problem right now than the native Sunni insurgents.</p>

<p>Third, this resorting to vigilantisim would defeat the point of establishing the rule of law and empowering the Shia through the regular army, both to intimidate the Sunnis and keep the Shia in the state. This is more important than anything. We&#8217;ve made a lot of progress, and taking down the Shia militias is one of the main challenges ahead.</p>

<p>Anyone wanting to understand the dynamics of the situation in Iraq better should, I humbly suggest, check out my current writings on the subject at <a href="http://threatswatch.org">ThreatsWatch</a>.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: sun bin</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-116909</link>
		<dc:creator>sun bin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Aug 2006 04:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2106#comment-116909</guid>
		<description>As Barnett said, Brits got it right and American got everything, &quot;without the thinking part&quot;:http://www.thomaspmbarnett.com/weblog/archives2/003564.html

i think that pretty much answered Curzon&#039;s question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Barnett said, Brits got it right and American got everything, <a href="http://www.thomaspmbarnett.com/weblog/archives2/003564.html">without the thinking part</a></p>

<p>i think that pretty much answered Curzon&#8217;s question.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: alec</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-116902</link>
		<dc:creator>alec</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Aug 2006 03:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2106#comment-116902</guid>
		<description>Were you using irony when you used pentagons for the third level?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Were you using irony when you used pentagons for the third level?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dan tdaxp</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-116901</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan tdaxp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Aug 2006 02:21:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2106#comment-116901</guid>
		<description>Add some loop-backs and that looks like a neural network.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Add some loop-backs and that looks like a neural network.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: XXX</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-116900</link>
		<dc:creator>XXX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2106#comment-116900</guid>
		<description>Not that it matters, but just one comment:: although John Robb&#039;s logic seems to be sound as far as Iraq is concerned, the examples he&#039;s put forward are not entirely factually correct. Only saying this for the record, I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not that it matters, but just one comment:: although John Robb&#8217;s logic seems to be sound as far as Iraq is concerned, the examples he&#8217;s put forward are not entirely factually correct. Only saying this for the record, I suppose.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Curzon</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2006/08/10/the-terror-tree/comment-page-1/#comment-116899</link>
		<dc:creator>Curzon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Aug 2006 01:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=2106#comment-116899</guid>
		<description>Since terrorists accomplish so many of their goals just by preparing for (not even attempting) civilian attacks, how can we counter this type of disruption?  In other words, what are a list of hard examples of network resiliancy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since terrorists accomplish so many of their goals just by preparing for (not even attempting) civilian attacks, how can we counter this type of disruption?  In other words, what are a list of hard examples of network resiliancy?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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