The following is part of an email exchange between Chirol and a very close Italian friend. This friend worked at the polls in the recent referendum and had this additional information to add since microstates and devolution have been all the rage recently. The title of the post is a rather humorous comment from him on what would happen if the North became autonomous.
The referendum asked to change half of the constitution, of course it was too much at once. For example they wanted to lower the number of senators, which is good, but also wanted to take some power from the supreme constitutional court and give them to the prime minister, which is very bad because it means the government can make a law which is not constitutional.However, the most important point was federalism: they wanted to give every region his own autonomy, for example in matters like health-system, security and schools. This means of course that the northern regions, which are richer and more efficient (southern Italy is a money-grave), will have higher standards.
Now what happened is that they posed these questions all together, because Berlusconi wanted to hit his biggest enemies (the judges) without too much noise, therefore he tried to switch the attention on federalism. Moreover , this was the main political target of Bossi and Lega nord, one on his biggest allies. At the end only Veneto and Lombardia (two of the richest region) voted yes and this was rather a surprise, since I expected the whole north to vote yes. In fact it’s clear that we’ve always had two different Italies, which have different speed. It’s however different from Catalonia, since there they really feel they live in a different state. This is not the case for Italy:
Bossi, at the beginning of his career, tried to talk about a norther state and about a “celtic race”, but now most of the northern people don’t feel this appeal anymore. Even when Bossi, before the referendum, asked for a “non-democratic alternative” in case the “no” would win, nobody was really scared. The people here just want to spend the taxes here and not send them to southern italy (which is also not completely true, since here the tax-evasion is much higher than southern italy, expecially the companies here pay much less taxes then they should).
Anyway, yes, there was a time when many people here dreamed of an independent state and they offended the Italian flag in public, now is a different story i guess.
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COMMENTS / 11 COMMENTS
Kirk H. Sowell added these pithy words on 30 Jun 06 at 6:27 pmI’m not sure it would do that much harm. In Belgium there is a lot of dependence by the less industrious French-speaking south on the more industrious Dutch/Flemish north. The south has an economy like France, but perhaps worse, where a disproportionate number work for the government, while the north has a productive, vigorous economy. This dependence doesn’t do them any good. One could also look at Appalachia in the U.S. or the American inner cities; these areas have been the targets of much largesse and much less real economic development. I think that part of the reason that eastern Germany is so economically sick is that they didn’t have to make it on their own, as Poland and Hungary did.
Living in Germany, you may have some perspective on this. What is it that holds the easterners back? From the results of the last elections it seemed that they were overwhelmingly opposed to serious economic reform.
Dan tdaxp added these pithy words on 30 Jun 06 at 9:04 pmI don’t get the Pakistan reference, but it seems a jump to say that southern Italy would descend into the Afro-Islamic Gap. A more realistic fate would be to sink to the Seam…
Chirol added these pithy words on 30 Jun 06 at 9:07 pmDan: It’s just a joke. Italy is so conservative, much more than many people realize and the south of course moreso. My friend is from the South and moved to the North where he now lives so he likes to joke about things like that.
Elizabeth added these pithy words on 01 Jul 06 at 9:55 amAnd here I was thinking… “Is it because of the Mafia?”
Italy is so much less conservative than Pakistan. Can you imagine walking into an Italian store to buy a bottle of water and having the clerk as you if you are Catholic? And answering: “No? Because non-Catholics will go to hell. You should become a Catholic.”
Or can you imagine someone from Rome killing his sister for being raped by his neighbour?
Chirol added these pithy words on 01 Jul 06 at 10:02 amOr can you imagine someone from Rome killing his sister for being raped by his neighbour?
Yes. An Arab or Pakistani
IJ added these pithy words on 01 Jul 06 at 10:48 amthey wanted . . . to take some power from the supreme constitutional court and give them to the prime minister
All governments dislike mechanisms that question them effectively. For example, they have long resisted a “supreme constitutional court” for the United Nations to help to enforce the UN Charter.
Kirk H. Sowell added these pithy words on 01 Jul 06 at 2:13 pmBig C: You still haven’t responded to my question. You are the Germany guy here – do you think that the former East Germany has a dependency problem – a la south Italy? It seems to me that the Poles, Hungarians and Czecks have been more dynamic in part because they have had to “sink or swim.” If not, what is the problem? Clearly there is one.
Dan tdaxp added these pithy words on 01 Jul 06 at 11:59 pm
Yes. An Arab or PakistaniBrilliant. And correct.
Unfortunately.
Chirol added these pithy words on 02 Jul 06 at 9:26 amDan: Something similar just happened in Berlin about a week or two ago. Two brothers shot their teenage sister because…..she had a boyfriend!
Kirk: Sorry I didn’t answer your question. I’d mostly agree with you about E. Germany but add the following. First of all, the major difference is that after the wall fell, the population just emptied into the West, like a broken dam. So many people didn’t need to think about a solution, they simply moved. Eastern Europeans couldn’t do that.
Secondly, Eastern European countries had to reform their whole countries whereas in Germany, they just poured money (or as many Germans believe, threw money away) into the East. But the bigger problem is the current German system as its also not serving Germans in general well right now. That has also prevented some progress.
So yes, the East does have a certain dependency problem but it’s unique one, not asmuch like the East or S. Italy.
Kirk H. Sowell added these pithy words on 02 Jul 06 at 2:08 pm...But the bigger problem is the current German system as its also not serving Germans in general well right now. That has also prevented some progress…
To put it mildly – I understand that Merkel, who has been playing the Grand Dame on the international stage, has engineered a significant tax increase, a sales tax increase if I remember correctly. Given that one of Germany’s big problems is lack of domestic demand – the exports are always fine – I don’t see how this makes sense. Of course they “have” to get within the EU’s 3% deficit rule, but it would seem that they could find some spending to cut instead of raising taxes on a sluggish economy.
