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Chirol
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Chirol

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May 4th, 2006

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Mapping the Gap 5: Italy, Netherlands, France

[Prelude | Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4]

Coming Anarchy reader Erwin read my last post on mapping the Gap and sent in these links to The Netherlands’ Ministry of Defense’s website. As he notes, the maps aren’t quite as good as those from the Germans and Canadians, but are nevertheless interesting. I only wish there were more information on their English site. Here’s a map of their current deployments:

Needless to say, they are all in the Gap as the Dutch military does its part shrinking it.

The map above was taken from the Dutch Ministry of Defense’s site here, and modified to include the total troops deployed which they mention and also provide more detailed information on. More information, including maps, can be found on their operation in Afghanistan here (Dutch). Anyone who speaks English, and some German should be able to understand the most important parts of the site as their English version isn’t as comprehensive as it should be.

Thanks again Erwin. I also went looking for similar information from the Italians, but as can be expected, there wasn’t even an English version of the site. I did find this list of operations but as I only understand limited Italian, I only got the basics. However, with some luck, I downloaded a 156 page .doc which had a fabulous map of Italian deployments. Here’s a small version of it but click the last link and get hte big version from the Italians.

They currently have 8,602 soldiers delpoyed in 28 missions in 19 countries across the globe. Pretty impressive. Compare that with Germany’s 6,703. Viva Italia!

But, most impressive is France. I managed to wade through the French only website and found a wonderful map of their current deployments. And how many troops are stationed abroad? You won’t believe it (unless my French is way off and I’m wrong). Over 33,000!

Although it may be a bit repetitive, it’s worth driving the point home, especially to Europeans, that it’s no coincidence they get the same map that we do so it shouldn’t come as any surprise where they’ll be going and that they’ll need to go.

Between France, Germany, The Netherlands and Italy, they have over 50,000 troops deployed worldwide.

NOTE: Anyone want to take a crack at the Poles? I didn’t find any maps but don’t have any more time to search. It’d be interesting to see though.

UPDATE: Eddie chimes in with thoughts on a volunteer Sysadmin force in the military.

UPDATE II: French reader Pascal Venier puts his fluency in French to use and corrects my number of 50,000 noting that a large number are stationed in French overseas departments (which are parts of France, just disconnected like Alaska and Hawaii) and thus the real number is actually around 16,750.

Comments to this entry

Dave Schuler
May 4, 2006
1:59 am
I'm still plowing through the Polish site; my Polish isn't as good as it used to be.

I see, however, that the Polish military is learning from ours: they're using PowerPoint presentations. ;-)
snow
May 4, 2006
3:22 am
How many does the US have deployed overseas? Very interesting that the Europeans have so many, despite the public wimpiness. Next time someone complains about how the US has soldiers in 150 or so countries, I can tell them about the European deployments. 50,000 is not too shabby for a continent of supposed 'peace lovers'.
moorethanthis
May 4, 2006
5:26 am
I think the reason for the large number of French soldiers deployed is that they still maintain strong links with their former colonies (which, unlike British possessions, were actual departements of France). Of course, former imperial/colonial ties doesn't always guarantee positive intervention - remember the Belgian peacekeepers in Rwanda?
Chirol
May 4, 2006
7:41 am
Moorthanthis: Indeed, they have a number of overseas departments, but those aren't colonies, they are integral parts of France. None of their departments are on there though, only former colonies.
Lobo
May 4, 2006
9:44 am
Spanish deployments abroad. A Polish list of deployments in English here.

Add Greece (no map, just tables).

A booklet on Danish armed forces here (2.4Mb). You find a map with their international deployments in the last two pages.

The map of Swedish deployments here.

Are you considering just European Union countries? Even Romania have information about their internationals missions.
Sean
May 4, 2006
3:27 pm
wait a minute. you're outsourcing your weblog! that's not fair! ;-)
Gollios
May 4, 2006
4:06 pm
Any idea what percentage of France's troops abroad are non-citizen Foreign Legion members?
Chirol
May 4, 2006
6:56 pm
Lobo: Thanks a lot, great information!
germanicus
May 6, 2006
9:10 pm
Re: Gollios said re; Foreign Legion, that is an interesting question and I can only guess, so take it with a grain of salt: a third, perhaps? I think they have a regiment stationed in Djibouti [sp?]; probably a battalion or two in Chad; same in Congo Brazzaville, a battalion, maybe in Latin America--former French Gyuana[sp ?] --where the French space facility is located; another battalion in New Caldonia, and another battalion or two scattederd throughout former French colonies. I could very well be totally off base but that is my guess. The right info, as Gollius suggested, would be worth having. Also, pardon my spelling on the geographic names, especially the Latin American one--I know it's spelled different than the West African one.
Kirk H. Sowell
May 7, 2006
6:11 am
Re France: Chirol, the 33,000 number is correct, but note that the "deploiement" link indicates that this figures includes the "gendarmarie" (police) and the SMA (Service Militaire Adaptee). According to that link, the SMA is actually something of a social organization that helps young French people (the ones not rioting, I presume) living outside France to find jobs and social associations abroad. It functions under the departments of defense and also that of the "Outre-Mer," which fulfills some of the functions of the U.S. State Dept.

Re the Dutch: They definitely have their troops stationed more appropriately than the U.S. does, but remember that recently there was huge resistance in the Netherlands to stationing 1,000 Dutch troops in the south of Afghanistan, where they would be expected to engage in combat. Troops stationed in the Kabul area, which most non-British European troops are, don't see much if any combat. The government went through with it under intense pressure, but the Dutch public opposed the deployment strongly.
Pascal Venier
May 13, 2006
8:20 pm
To get a fair figure for French military deployements overseas, one should perhaps deduct from the figure of 33,000, the 16,600 troups which are deployed on French overseas territories or departments listed on the map as "troupes de souveraineté" (litt. Troups of sovereignty").

Should however be added to the figure the number of French servicement who are deployed as part of the CMD, the Cooperation militaire et de défense, (litt. Defence and military cooperation), which is managed by the Ministry for Foreign Affairs. The figure in 2004 was 359.

So I would suggest a figure of 16,750

As has been pointed out in one of the comments the SMA (Service Militaire Adapté, litt. Adaptated military service), although being administered as military units, is really a scheme for Youth living in French Overseas departments and territories and lacking professional skills to receive such training. 2300 positions are available on the scheme each year.
Chirol
May 13, 2006
8:31 pm
I appreciate the additional information. Perhaps you could write the French Ministry of Defense and ask them to offer more information in English. I'll make a note on the post. When looking at the map, I didn't notice any overseas dept.s but rather former colonies and overseas posessions (like New Caledonia)
Pascal Venier
May 13, 2006
8:35 pm
A map of French deployments as part of the Defence and military cooperation is also available. I would willingly prepare a synthesis of both maps, if this is of interest, as I have the appropriate software.
Chirol
May 13, 2006
8:38 pm
Pascal: Thanks a lot for the help. You're welcome to combine the maps if it wouldn't take too much time and I'll gladly post your results but only if it won't take too much of your time.
Pascal Venier
May 13, 2006
9:44 pm
All the territories coloured turquoise on the map are current French overseas territories. You can compare it with the map of French overseas possessions today.

Guadeloupe, Guyane, Martinique, Réunion are both French Overseas Departments and Overseas Regions. They are part of the European Union, where they have the status of Ultra-peripherical regions, like Spanish Canaries and Portuguese Madeira and Açores.

French Polynesia is now a "Pays d'Outre-mer au sein de la République", an overseas country within the [French] Republic.

New Caledonia, Mayotte, St-Pierre et Miquelon, Wallis et Futuna, and French Austral and Antartic Lands are "Collectivités d'Outre-Mer". New Caledonia has a special status of autonomy.

All this is rather complicated. So much so that according to one of French leading newspapers, Le Monde, the French Foreign Minister, who is not known for being a sharp cookie and is nicknamed "Mister Bluff", is himself getting confused (1). When on 16 August 2006, a plane crashed in Venezuela, killing 152 passengers from the French Caribbean island of Martinique, the Foreign minister announced his intention to visit Fort-de-France, Martinique's capital immediately. The French Presidency had to intervene to remind him that Martinique was not a foreign territory and was therefore not within his remit as Foreign Secretary.

(1) Philippe Douste-Blazy, "Mister Bluff" au Quai d'Orsay", Le Monde, 27 April 2006.