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Curzon
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Curzon

Date

December 21st, 2005

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Chinese Invaders, French Colonialists, Japanese Fascists, and American Imperialists

Hanoi is a bustling city and there’s much to do. I spent the day seeing the city on bike—no easy task with Vietnam’s traffic—including the old Citadel, the Temple of Literature, Ho Chi Minh’s Maosoleum, and the Military History Museum.

Although Hanoi is currently in the middle of the fourteenth Communist Party Convention or something like that (central police in their Latin American dictator-style suits and Politburo tourists are everywhere), the museum was empty save for a few Western tourists. It’s a sad place. The center of the museum was a 30 foot high pile of plane wreckage collected from various French and US planes, which is shown above. Much is made of the numbers of enemy killed; nothing is said about the Vietnamese who died, save for the sporadic tributes to martyrs. And the displays are morbid, proudly displaying swords “used to kill two French soldiers” and weapons captured from the enemy.

The section on how the people of the world supported North Vietnam is the weirdest part of the exhibit. Here you learn that every Polish citizen gave 250ml of blood to the Vietnamese people (no mention on whether it was voluntary or not), Romania gave a transistor radio alarm clock, and the Bectorang Rutsen International Court in Stockholmprosecuted Americans for war crimes in 1967 (some things never change).

Last note: the place was in real need of a clean—I took this shot of the plane wreckage through the window of the second display building.

Our next stop is Sapa, and then we head across the Chinese border. The next two nights will be spent on trains and buses, so the next post will probably be from Kunming.

Comments to this entry

Chirol
December 21, 2005
1:46 pm
Reminds me of Syria!
sun bin
December 21, 2005
5:02 pm
" every Polish citizen gave 250ml of blood to the Vietnamese people (no mention on whether it was voluntary or not), "

i would rather question the word 'every' than 'voluntary'
lirelou
December 22, 2005
1:21 am
Some hard-core Japanese stayed behind to train and fight with the Viet Minh. I noticed that there was no mention of them, though one returned to Japan in 1983 (?). Of course, 75% of the French Army in Vietnam in 1939 was "Indochinese", and by the time of Dien Bien Phu some one to two thirds of "French" troops were Vietnamese and other Indochinese serving in French (as opposed to ARVN)units. DeLattre's son was killed fighting with a Vietnamese unit. I was at the War Muesum last November. The imp in me demanded that I wear a vest with both a II MIKE Force patch and a 5th SFG flash, both of which had the ARVN colors, and I ran into a group of Korean tourists, many of whom were veterans. Most of the young people working in the museum were very friendly, but there were two young ladies who kept giving my insignia the evil eye. They had a few minor errors in their Dien Bien Phu exibit, which I was very happy to point out to them (Colonial Infantry shoulderboards incorrectly labelled Foreign Legion, etc), and they appeared genuinely appreciative. When dealing with the Vietnamese military, it is best to remember De Lattre de Tasigny's words: "They were very brave fighters in a very bad cause." You also have to remember that for everyone north of the 17th Parallel, or living within a VC controlled area, there was no choice. I was glad to see that Nguyen Binh received at least a bust in the museum. Nguyen Binh was the greatest guerrilla commander that Vietnam ever produced, and he was not a communist. He was a VNQDD (roughly Vietnam Nationalist Party) who had been named by HCM himself to command the southern front of the Viet Minh. His death, at the hands of French troops in 1951, was always suspected by them to have been a set-up to remove a possible rival to HCM. Have a nice trip to Sapa, If you can get up thru That Khe to Dong Khe, say hello to the ghosts of the 1st BEP and 3rd BCCP (among the 8 battalions annihilated between there and the Coc Xa gorge.) That country was the scene of Giap's first, hard earned victory. If you can pull up Cnel Jacques Jaubert's site on the internet, you can read some first hand accounts of the fighting. He was captured there in Oct 50 and spent four years as a "guest" of HCM at the infamous "Camp No. 1".
Dr. Alfred Russel Wallace
December 22, 2005
2:06 pm
I found lirelou's comments very thought-provoking - and it is probably an almost universal truth that in many fights and wars "They were very brave fighters in a very bad cause."Â?
felipe the latinlover
December 23, 2005
1:59 am
My mother say me once the Vietnamese people is one of th emost strongest people in the world. do you think how they can fight and win or just give a fight to the most ppowerful armys in the world. realy congratulations and recpet for vietnam
lirelou
December 23, 2005
3:38 am
Felipe, el pueblo vietnamita estaba dividido en tres campos. Los comunistas, los anti-comunistas, y los a quienes la guerra no importaba ni un bledo. Los comunistas tuvieron la ventaja de presentar la lucha como una guerra anticolonial que resolviera todos los problemas del pueblo, cosa que nunca hizieron, dado que fue la meta esa imposible. El ejercito de Giap no solamente vencio un ejercito frances. Vencio tanto el ejercito frances como el ejercito de la republica de Vietnam. Pero debo apuntar que el ejercito frances en Vietnam tenia en sus rangos muchos vietnamitas anti-comunistas. Este porcentaje llego a un tercio de la famosa Legion Etranjera, y casi la mitad de todos los batallones paracaidistas. Pero, no vencio a ni los franceses ni al los "ARVNs" a tal punto que ganaron todo el territorio nacional. Nada mas lograron conquistar la parte de Vietnam que quedaba por arriba del 17mo paralelo. Salieron de la conferencia de paz obligado internacionalmente de reconocer un estado vietnamita no-comunista cuyo sede era Saigon. Ahora bien, la delta de Tonkin no beneficie del mismo clima como la delta del Mekong, y asi su produccion de arroz se quedaba muy por debajo de la produccion arrocera de Vietnam del sur. Eso implicaba una dependencia ciclica sobre la China Popular en anos de baja produccion. Aun mas, la reformas agropecuarias demandado por la Rusia como prueba de que si eran verdaderos comunistas, y no meros nacionalistas disfrazados, empeoro la produccion agropecuario. Asi, la segunda fase de la guerra de Indochina. Entiende bien, ambos estados vietnamitas reclamaban todo el territorio nacional, y no solamente la parte que gobernaban. En la segunda guerra, los comunistas tuvieron la gran ventaja de la "unidad de esfuerzo". Eso es la gran ventaja de todos los sistemas totalitarios. Mientras tanto, su oposicion fue muy dividida, y por supuesto, los del norte hicieron todo lo posible para dividirlos aun mas. Asi, el estado sureno nacio y se quedo muy debil, mientras el estado norteno tenia tanto una ideologia en este momento de moda como los aparatos de seguridad interno y control politico que facilitaba esa unidad de esfuerzo. Nunca vencieron al ejercito americano, pero si lograban infligir perdidas apreciables en el ejercito ARVN, lo cual nunca llegaba al nivel del ejercito "PAVN" (Ejercito del Pueblo de Vietnam). Eso dicho, una vez que se fueron las tropas americanas (1972), el ARVN, por necesidad, se puso mejor. En la gran ofensiva de Pascuas de 1972, al gran sorpresa de sus asesores norteamericanos, el ejercito vietnamita (ARVN) no solament aguanto a Quang Tri y An Loc (afuera de Saigon), lograron pasar a la contra-ofensiva y vencer a las divisiones PAVN, pero con necesaria ayuda de la (tecnologicamente superior) fuerza aerea EEUU. Esa relacion simbiotica entre la fuerza aerea eeuu y las fuerzas terrestres de la Republica de Vietnam fue su toca de gracia. En 1974, Nixon se vio obligado renunciar la presidencia de los EEUU, sin dejar un vice-presidente (previamente tumbado en un escandalo). Asi, el presidente de la camera (llamado "speaker of the House" en ingles) volvio a ser presidente sin que nadie fuera de su distrito congresional jamas votasa por el. Asi, cuando nos de norte desencadeno su invasion de Abril de 1975, una ofensiva de tanques y infanteria blindada, no de guerrilleros, el ejercito ARVN se descompuso. Aparte de unas batallas desesperadas librados por los paracaidistas y lanceros/cazadores vietnamitas, sin apoyo aero de los americanos, el estado del sur por fin se cayo. Vietnam fue reunificado, y de este momento en adelante, se fue rumbo a la pobreza bajo el yugo del partido comunista de la Indochina. Entiendese bien, Vietnam no fue el ganador, Vietnam fue tanto vencedora como vencida, victimario y victima. El unico arquitecto de la victoria esa fue el Partido. Un partido que preferia convencer, pero si no podia convencer, no sufrio nunca de complejos en cuanto al empleo de la fuerza. El pueblo nunca era, ni es, el Partido. Al contrario, el pueblo siempre era el botin de la guerra!
pd. mis dos cunados eran VC, y una prima de mi esposa era oficial del partido, y participaba en la guerra como miembro clandestino del gobierno VC. Me confeso ella hace un ano de que si se sabia de antemano lo que seria el resultado de la guerra, habia participado al lado de los ARVN! Eso de una viuda de un "martir de la revolucion".
felipe the latinlover
December 24, 2005
1:01 am
i am sorry :$
ComingAnarchy.com » Blog Archive » Helicopters in Iraq
February 5, 2007
12:20 am
[...] For security reasons, those tactics have not been elaborated, but this is merely a change of maneuvers in dangerous areas: flying lower, faster, varying routes, and using unusual patterns of flight. You can see photos of a downed Apache helicopter at this militant site. The sentiment behind it reminds me of the Vietnam War Museum. What say you? [...]