COMMENTS / 9 COMMENTS
Gabriel Mihalache added these pithy words on 30 Nov 05 at 12:04 pmRegarding the the-world-is-connected type of argument… I think the way you put it is backwards. The connections exist because how the world is; it’s not that the world is how it is because of the connections.
By “connections” I understand that supply chains and tourist routes and shipping/air lanes cross borders. That’s great! But the point is that supply chains include manufacturers from other countries because that countries are host to profitable producers.
The spontaneous order of economics develops against a background of the physical and political given. If a country turns batshit-crazy with Islamic fundamentalism, then some of these connections with it will be broken, because the individuals involve won’t find that connection profitable. What’s wrong with that?
Just because at one time I chose to trade with you it doesn’t mean that I commit to always doing so and it certainly doesn’t follow that you’re justified in keeping me in a certain relationship by force.
I guess I’m trying to say that political isolationism and international free trade can go hand-in-hand. The economic world doesn’t need the power of politics (coercion) in order to work.
Dan added these pithy words on 30 Nov 05 at 1:23 pm
I guess I’m trying to say that political isolationism and international free trade can go hand-in-hand. The economic world doesn’t need the power of politics (coercion) in order to work.If that’s the case, why is globalization basically go away from 1914-1984?
Dan tdaxp added these pithy words on 30 Nov 05 at 3:17 pm
I will not whip our cabinet,’’ he said Tuesday in Ottawa.Replace “Ottawa” with “Washington,” and you have a scandal that makes Clinton’s problems pale in comparison!
Gabriel Mihalache added these pithy words on 30 Nov 05 at 7:42 pmDan, you trade only with those that consent to trade. You can create globalisation at gun-point as some people seem to think. If the world is a bad place full of dictatorships then don’t expect free trade and free flow of information. The economy will expand as much as profits and freedom allow it to. That being said, you can’t force people to embrace a certain way of thinking and acting vis-a-vis of wealth, trade and so on.
Kirk H. Sowell added these pithy words on 30 Nov 05 at 11:35 pmTrue you can’t force people to trade, but let us remember that free trade has its gun-point element – the U.S. military keeps the trade routes and resource supplies open by force of arms. Every country in the global economy benefits from this, and a few, such as Britain, Poland, the Aussies, etc., help out at times, but most free-load (I won’t mention any in particular). And of course this means maintaining regional hegemonies which lead to tensions with local powers seeking local hegemony, a la Iran and Baathist Iraq. Call it another part of our British heritage.
But that background is usually forgotten; its like the wallpaper, its always there, so people don’t think about it.
NeonCat added these pithy words on 01 Dec 05 at 5:44 amYeah, using the US military to open up sorta-free trade, that always works out well. After all, if Commodore Perry hadn’t forced Japan to open up to trade, they probably wouldn’t have had the ability to build the fine ships and guns they had as our allies in World War I, or beaten the Russians in the Russo-Japanese war.
There is trade and there is colonization. Iraq might as well be a colony of the US, and reprinting Dr. Seuss cartoons doesn’t make it not so. I would argue that if the US had been totally isolationist in World War I, instead of deciding to make money off the Allies, and stayed out of the damn war, maybe we wouldn’t have to spend so much money on trying to force the rest of the world to do what we want today. Maybe the Twentieth Century wouldn’t have turned into the horror show it did.
Kirk H. Sowell added these pithy words on 01 Dec 05 at 8:42 amResponse to Neoncat:
1) It is not correct to say that the U.S. military opens free trade – we keep the trade lanes open, but others still have the option of having tariffs and staying poor if they want, as India has up until recently.2) Iraq is not a colony by definition – that requires colonists, people who plan to settle for decades if not forever. The U.S. is an imperial power, but not a colonial one, and the world’s commerce depends on us staying that way.
3) The Japan and Commodore Perry example is a stretch because (a) lots of other variables, like the Meijis, were at work, and (b) no one is going to go along with keeping other countries poorer on purpose. Of course many do it to themselves.
4) The point about WWI is arguable, the Kaiser’s regime wasn’t in my opinion an evil that had to be destroyed like Hitler’s. But Saddam and the regimes in Syria and Iran are more like Hitler than the Kaiser, both morally and in terms of threat to the United States.
Gabriel Mihalache added these pithy words on 01 Dec 05 at 7:03 pmI didn’t ask of the US to keep any trade route open. I can sort out my own security. The fact that the US secures certain routes for its own benefit doesn’t mean that I owe anything. There’s a huge literature on positive externalities and positive obligations which I suggest we don’t repeat here.
My point is only that connections appear and disappear on their own, based on the entrepreneurial decision of property owners and other individual decisions. In this context, I ask nothing of the State as I know that everything the State does is against free men and for the benefit of interest groups.

