It took 70 years after the abolition of slavery for segregation to be struck down once and for all in this country, but it did happen. In an age of light-speed communication of ideas, hopefully the process of integration of the Arab world into the core won’t take 70 years.

I see iraq as a means to accellerate this process by removing obstacles to change, and setting up an allied arab government to persecute terrorists in their midst rather than providing support. Its a risk, but one worth taking

So Western conceptions of human rights aren’t part of the Core values, but democracy is?

Of course western conceptions of human rights are part of the core, thats what I mean’t my “universally superior” values. Sorry if my wording sounded otherwise.

With women given an equal vote to men, Politicians won’t be able to enact laws that blatantly discriminate against women, like the way women are treated in Saudi Arabia, or depicted in the Koran. Thats a start, but I imagine it will take time before people campaign on a womens rights platform.

It is essentially a battle between traditional islamic values and western ones (which are not compatible with eachother, I don’t care what CAIR says). If democracy and equal rights for women (which are rejections of basic Koranic teachings) can emerge in iraq, then anything is possible.

Going to have to pass this one on to Critt….

So Western conceptions of human rights aren’t part of the Core values, but democracy is?

The women of Iraq helped elect SCIRI and Dawa to power.

Also, I guess it has something to do with moral absolutes; that there are some moral codes that are self-evidently better. Slavery is always wrong no matter what, for example. The values are “evolutionarily more fit”, in that once a society abolishes slavery it doesnt re-aquire it.

Insurrections by fascist movements are the only way you could (in theory) move the society back to the Gap. Youv’e got to try to shrink the gap thru connectivity (often initiated by war i.e. iraq) so that fascism is regulated exclusively to isolated incidents. Tim McVeigh is a remnant of white-supremicist sepratism that the Union fought a war against 140 years ago.

The biggest question in the war on terror is whether traditional islamic societies will adopt core values in the 21st century. Considering the successful elections in Iraq and the fact that half of all muslims are women (duh), I am optimistic.

If by values you mean “exporting to France the idea of different laws of different faith communities,” isn’t this happening now? One of the sparks of the riots was Sarkozy’s insistence on police work in the exurbs, not leaving enforcement up to indigineous forces.

If by values you mean the “Gap” community being able to influence French foreign policy: do you think France is going to be be more or less likely to criticize Israel, knowing what a “wrong” answer would do?

If by values you mean exporting Gap ideas of censorship, do you think the Gap has or has not exported that value by assassinating van Gogh?

Noodles: By “universally superior” do you mean “universally more evolutionarily fit”? Because if not, I’m not sure how its relevent.

The Core values stem from consentual constitutional law and a basic libertarian self-determination for the individual. Free markets and free people.

These values are so universally superior, that wherever core and gap do commerce, inevitably there is idea exchange only in the direction of the gap albeit slowly. This has been happening across the arab world since the oil trade began after WWI, and 9/11 was bin Laden’s attempt to stop it.

For whatever reason, when people aren’t integrated into the core where they live, dissolusionment can lead to adoption of Gap values. Like the columbine kids choosing a white supremicist fantasy because they don’t “fit in”. Muslim supremacy appeals to the rioters as well.

Thinking back to the basic Core/Gap theories, I again see an incomplete view of how things work. 85-90% right, but too content with itself to go looking for the rest.

The problem for France is that it may be difficult for the liberal, marxist-determinist politicians to force the value arrow into the ghettos more effectively. The simple ban of headscarves in public schools caused an uproar with cries of “islamaphobia” and “racism.” All you have to do is call a French Politician a racist and watch him put his tail between his legs and give you what you want.

Villepin’s solution of more government welfare and job-programs sounds more like capitulation to a labour union to stop a strike, rather than a response to criminal vandalism.

Someone has to grow some balls and declare what it means to be a frenchman, and stop calling on Imams to quell the violence. All that does is prove that islam is the solution to everything.