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That's fantastic he thanked you guys for the site.

What kind of questions came up? Any memorable answers or soundbites?

I only just got back home a few minutes ago, after a very long day of post-Kaplan activity. It was a great time though. Must happen again.

I'll leave more detailed reactions to Kaplan for tomorrow though. Rest beckons.

Wow, congratulations! Wish I could have been there! I'll be anxiously awaiting a full update!

MSNBC.com has an online clip with Robert Kaplan:
"Iraq vs. Hurricane relief: Sep. 27: Robert Kaplan, author of Imperial Grunts: The American Military on the Ground, joins MSNBC-TV's Tucker Carlson to discuss the War in Iraq and its impact on hurricane relief."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3096434/

Thanks for that, Atlanticus -- notice how he's wearing the same suit! Must have been right afterwards.

Kaplan is not "a pessimistic realist" as someone here has described him. Kaplan is a psychotic, strategizing war-monger who is popular because he is in bed with the insatiable, power hungry, American leaders.

My extensive reading leads me to conclude that his confrontational attitude is extremely dangerous in this era of nuclear warfare. His coercive "strategies" are dangerous and not sensible. The path that he endorses will very likely continue to spawn terror around the world, as many analysts have already written, and increase the chances of our own self-destruction. Why can't he see this? It's obvious that his sympathies with imperialism cloud his better judgement; and that he, like his cheerleaders, pressupose the notion of a human necessity for violence. It is extremely ignorant to suggest that we must follow this path of TOTAL dominance (like bullies in the schoolyard.) The historical examples should be enough for us to understand that the basic violation of morality is dangerous. Kaplan refuses to consider a more realisitic, positive policy that would not threaten the survival of us egocentric humans...and the rest of the planet. Kaplan is no hero, he is a very troubled, hypocritical individual and needs some professional help. Please let's all try to develop a more open mind folks. Here's a more positive suggestion: let's use this blog to educate others of the dangers of his openly destructive initiatives rather than continue patting him on the back and shaking his cold hand.

Swift speaks of an open mind but his appears to be pretty made up. Instead of engaging Mr. Kaplan on the basis of his arguments he constructs a fanged blood-splattered straw man that bears no resemblance to the actual Kaplan. Unwilling or more likely unable to actually discuss the issues raised by Kaplan Swift resorts to name calling. Swift is obviously a loony lefty narrow minded sycophant in bed with granola munching fellow traveling Stalinist worshipping bearded women who haven't bathed in three weeks.

Enough of the name calling here are the facts...by his own admission Kaplan is not as pessimistic as he once was. Newsflash the nuclear era began 60 years ago. Curtis LeMay was confrontational Kaplan just doesn't think that we should retreat into a shell and beg forgiveness for providing stability, promoting our interests and on occasion even spreading goodwill and democracy. I'm exaggerating but so does Swift. The only thing that we should apologize for is liberating France. Kaplan is realistic about human nature not delusional to think that a new man can be fashioned by gathering around a campfire and singing Kumbaya. Get with it Swift Hitler and el Che tried to change human nature and look what that did and what it got them. Kaplan may not be a hero, but he never claimed to be one. Swift however is an intellectual coward for not taking Kaplan or his ideas seriously. So climb down from that ivory tower the lack of oxygen is messing with your head.

I wish to apologize to the readers and contributors of cominganarchy for my vitriolic rant. Curzon, Younghusband and Chirol have created a forum for enlightened discourse and debate and I can't help but feel that I have sullied it. Just because J. Swift got down and dirty does not mean that I had to join him. Again my apologies.

Nothing to apologize about...

I believe that Swift has raised some worthwhile points, and we should perhaps not dismiss them so quickly. I think he/she can avoid the mudslinging with his/her fundamentally rational suggestion to avoid imperialistic strategizing because of it's inherent danger in an era very different from imperialism of the past. Now weaponry is potentially much more devastating and this fact requires acknowledgement. Although some may perceive Swift as being facetious or not addressing evidence, I think his words about basic morality and hypocrisy are crucial to recognize. As The Man (Chomsky) has stated "Hypocrisy means to apply the same standards to yourself as you would to other's" By that simple definition Kaplan, like Bush and his predators/supporters, is a hypocrit,. I personally have witnessed the potential of human nature and therefore believe in the concept of progress (and that includes idealism.)

Further, I am confused about many of TheCardinal's points. Swift seemed to be referring to the comment that someone else had made ("a pessimistic realist") and this was not his own description.

The insult about lack of oxygen is perhaps relevant, to digress, as pollution, from factories and automobiles, is choking us all- and this pollution extends beyonds any human-constructed borders. Perhaps we all need to munch on some granola and contemplate this problem a bit...

Before the term lost meaning, I identified myself as a conservative and my view mirrors some of the comments made by Swift. I think the role of governments is to provide a forum for democracy and not attempt to block it or force other countries apply our version of it to their populations. This is not our responsibility as the Superpower and self-proclaimed rulers of the world!! We would be wiser to open are doors and consider the basic human rights of underdeveloped societies.. I realize this may have some challenges, but this will give us the chance to work collectively (rather than through Kaplan's proposed option of war or "covert guile" which bears a strong reflection to Satan's speech in Milton's epic "Paradise Lost")

Lastly, in Swift's defense, we must not rationalize attrocities, or compare them. This is not honest or morally acceptable.

Chomsky = The Man?

No thanks. Unless you mean in it the sense of "The Man" that is keeping the brotherman down...

"TheBishop" and "J.Swift" have the same web address: michaelparenti.org. I think that someone here is posting under different names to create a fake consensus. Agree with yourself much Mr. Parenti?

I'm not sure whether to be flattered or freaked out in finding myself talking to thePriest and theBishop. I was going to give myself a promotion to thePope but figured that would be a tad presumptuous.

I can't debate theBishop because it is apparent that he has not read Imperial Grunts or followed Kaplan's work closely. We would simply be talking past each other and that defeats the purpose of this forum. Its not that theBishop does not raise issues that could be addressed they just have nothing to do with Kaplan and that is precisely what we were discussing here. If theBishop reads the book and or reads excerpts from The Atlantic and still has issues then I would be more than happy to have an enlightened dialogue with him either here or on my own blog. Then again if he really considers Chomsky "the man" an open mind and a reasoned debate may be beyond his grasp. I think I'll be pushing for an excommunication.

OMG... chatting with tdaxp on MSN and here is his imagined encounter between the CA boyz and The Man:

bq. "Hi, my friend and I dress up like Victorian diplomats and pretend to be your friend"
"HELP!"

LOL!

"Kaplan is not "a pessimistic realist"Â? as someone here has described him. Kaplan is a psychotic, strategizing war-monger who is popular because he is in bed with the insatiable, power hungry, American leaders." (quote by J Swift)

As a long time reader of Kaplan, I would suggest one of his big themes is that events on the ground do not play out according to some "uberstrategy", but rather are shaped by uncontrolled variables ranging from climate and disease, to culture and individual personalities.

Flipping through "Imperial Grunts", I read a chaper about an American officer who is in Mongolia actively cultivating their military and political leaders in the hopes of creating a sort of American Gurkahs. I somehow can't picture this being on the radar of the President, Dr. Rice or the Joint Cheifs of Staff, and indeed, if a different officer had been in that post, there would probably be a very different series of events with a different potential outcome happening.

American leaders of all stripes (power hungry or not) would do well to read Kaplan, simply to see certain events from a bottom up perspective. If what Kaplan sees is disturbing to J Swift, perhaps he should re read Kaplan with a little more care and perhaps he will discover why Kaplan draws certain conclusions in his travels.

[...] 25 bucks!? Kaplan was only $16? What gives? Leave a Reply [...]

[...] I chose to post about the historic meeting between Younghusband and Curzon in Chitral because I just got back from a long weekend visiting Sir and Lady Younghusband in Kingston, Ontario. (Thanks again for a wonderful time!) It was only the second time Younghusband and I have seen each other in the almost two years of this blog, the last time being our trip to New York to see Kaplan last year. The trip was wonderful, and I got to see historic forts, the Royal Military College, dine in the Officer’s banquet hall, and meet many of the Canadian civilians studying all aspects of war. [...]

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