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Curzon
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Curzon

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September 23rd, 2005

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Enslaving the peasants to save them

Nepal’s Maoists are growing bolder and abducting increasingly numbers of the country’s rural young.

Suspected Maoist rebels have abducted 60 students from a secondary school in Northwest Nepal, the police said on Thursday, reports `The Asian Age’.

The students were abducted on Wednesday from Saraswati Secondary school in Dolpa district, 475 kilometers northwest of Kathmandu, and forcibly marched to an undisclosed location for indoctrination, the police said.

“The Maoists selected 60 sturdy looking boys and girls of grades six to ten and abducted them,” the police said after a teacher at the school reached the district headquarters Dunai on Thursday.

Heck, they’ve got enough now that they can select only the “sturdy” ones—children that can do the slave labor to build their glorified public works programs.

Read a blogger give a terrifying defense of the Maoists and the “self-imposed government” of her village of residence in Nepal here.

Comments to this entry

Dan
September 23, 2005
1:03 pm
But according to the polisci grad student whose office neighbors mind, the government started the war, so what else could the rebels do?

*sigh*
Peter
September 23, 2005
5:36 pm
In essence, it's just a repeat of all other Communist regimes. The complete and utter lack of individual freedom ALWAYS produces a society in which just a few elities are in control and everyone else must sacrifice of themselves for the "common good." Communism IS slavery.
J.Kende
September 23, 2005
6:42 pm
Yes, and it is wretched. But an important point is being focused on in these entries: How could the interests and needs of Nepalese be better served?

Rather than just looking at the rebels as the miserable thugs that they are and arguing over whether their brutality is justified (which it isn't) by the supposedly better conditions that the communist blogger is talking about , I see the situation as a clear opportunity for forward advance in the region.

The Nepalese are calling out for personal security, health clinics, education, opportunity for better nutrition, and connectivity with the world beyond their villages (for health, learning, communication, etc). Sounds to me like SF should be operating there, with loose rules of engagement. Strengthen constructive institutions in the countryside, train the military to put down the Maoist insurgency through force of arms and by winning hearts and minds, and tug the monarch towards benevolent rule (and/or nuture his replacement with a velvet movement after civil society and personal security have stablized).

The strategic interests are clear: Stablize conditions in a neighbor to India, check the advance of China on all sides, flip one more othello piece in re Central Asia and the GWoT, narrow the Barnett Gap, and do a mitzva for the people of Nepal. SF could even replicate efforts in Mongolia and lay the groundwork for the return of the Gurkha.
J.Kende
September 23, 2005
6:53 pm
One alternative to forced labor in pursuit of common good would be to train the Nepalese to launch startup organizations that build public works by compensating the voluntary sweat equity of those who cannot afford to pay taxes, but are able bodied, with ownership shares in the construction and other businesses that can grow out of those efforts. A life standards escalator of sorts for the common villager to go from anarchic poverty to the middle class wealth of shareholder ownership...

I wish I had an SF team of my own, and the resources to go there and start a business based on this model right now.
Curzon
September 23, 2005
7:10 pm
J. Kende -- labor in lieu of tax payments is fine. That's not my beef with Ms. Communist -- this is:

"'self-imposed 'government' of our village... thus far, it's only proven to be beneficial.


Yeah, thus far. I hear Lenin was pretty good his first few years too.

'compulsory voluntary work'


You should be terrified by this Orwellian wording. Today labor, tomorrow your house, the day after... your family.

As far as Communism in general goes... please believe, I know that a lot of bad has come about from it throughout history. But is it communism or corruption thereof?


The very system of "self-appointed" government, even if based on principles of justice at the get go, will inevitably corrupt. That's the story of all Communist governments: China, USSR, Cambodia, North Korea... the process took varying amounts of time, but the end result is the same: the dark side of human nature will eventually take over when given the vice of absolute power.
J.Kende
September 23, 2005
7:58 pm
Absolutely agree. I'm just thinking out loud about how to shut down the Maoists and advance a real alternative.
cowlick
September 23, 2005
11:55 pm
"Enslaving the peasants to save them"

You mean as in, "Bombing Iraqi civilians to free them"?

Thanks for evincing evidence of how the Heritage Foundation has fans far beyond the rabid right.
ron Patterson
September 24, 2005
12:46 am
Please Cowlick can you state where you found a U.S. policy directive that advocated bombing Iraqii civilians? Or a U.S. military commander who gave such an order.
Emma
September 24, 2005
2:56 am
I am not saying that I do support the Maoists an all accounts, but in a war where over 2/3 of the deaths have been at the hand of the government... where high school age villagers are not free to walk to neighboring villages in groups of 3 or more for fear of being mistaken for Maoists and killer.... where an unarmed 16 year old girl was killed and left to rot for merely being a Maoist.... I start to question the government and start to become a Maoist sympathizer. The government has done absolutely nothing beneficial- not even provided school teachers or training of any kind- for our village in the past decade.... everything done has been done by the village for the village.....
mark safranski
September 24, 2005
4:03 am
Ron,

If you are expecting a guy who pops in to make an ad hominem to quo que argument in support of a murderous Maoist insurgency to provide a citation rather than - say - empty cant, then...you're going to be disappointed.
TheJew
September 24, 2005
4:04 am
Here is a US policy tacitly endorsing sex-slavery in Saudi Arabia. Here is the press release from the State Department.

"Ecuador, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia are also on the Tier Three list for not complying with the TVPA's minimum standards, but they have received presidential waivers," I'm glad the American people would never hypocritically compromise our values of personal freedoms for a minor military edge, it's only our Republican leadership that will.
mark safranski
September 24, 2005
4:13 am
" it's only our Republican leadership that will."

Ummm..refresh my memory on the sanctions levied by the Clinton administration against Saudi Arabia.
Jay
September 24, 2005
6:59 am
_"One alternative to forced labor in pursuit of common good would be to train the Nepalese to launch startup organizations that build public works by compensating the voluntary sweat equity of those who cannot afford to pay taxes, but are able bodied, with ownership shares in the construction and other businesses that can grow out of those efforts. A life standards escalator of sorts for the common villager to go from anarchic poverty to the middle class wealth of shareholder ownership"¦_

_I wish I had an SF team of my own, and the resources to go there and start a business based on this model right now."_

Kende, that's an intriguing idea for a foreign aid thing. Are you sure that no one else has come up with or tried anything like this?
I find it hard to believe that no one else has thought of anything like it (well then again, I haven't!).

When did you come up with this?

Might there even be a possible application here in the US?

Just a thought...
emma
September 24, 2005
7:00 am
I know we have moved on to thoughts of Saudi Arabia... but I have to go back to the Maoists....
first of all... thanks for taking the time to discuss the "murderous maoist insurgency"- I would like you to know that over 2/3 of the murders occuring in the alleged have been at the hand of the government- not the Maoists.... After being in a village that had a 16 year old unarmed girl murdered by army forces who made the blanket statement that she "was a maoist" as the reason for murdering her and leaving her body to rot in the forrest.... it's a bit hard to take a cold hard stance against the Maoists- wouldn't you say? I haven't said that I am an all out pro-Maoist or Communist, but i do believe that in the situation of Nepal they are automatically deemed as evil- before evil is even done- and there are some other factors which make me what is also illegal- A Maoist Sympathizer.
J. Kende
September 24, 2005
8:54 am
"Kende, that's an intriguing idea for a foreign aid thing. Are you sure that no one else has come up with or tried anything like this?
I find it hard to believe that no one else has thought of anything like it (well then again, I haven't!).

When did you come up with this?

Might there even be a possible application here in the US?

Just a thought"¦"

Honestly that is exactly the kind of work I want to be doing in my own future. It isn't a light undertaking though and I am very early on that path in my studies, in gathering the right people as a core, etc. I'm sure some aspects of it may already exist, but there is always room for more of that type of venture -- internationally _and_ domestically. Besides, even if it is being done somewhat now, attempting to do it better is always worth a shot.
J. Kende
September 24, 2005
9:08 am
Emma, it isn't an either/or. The current government seems unsavory according to many accounts -- although it is hard to tell which of those accounts to trust. The Maoists however start off with an ideology that is one of the most lethal in all of history. Even if we are to believe they are truly driven by those terrible principles, and not just by using any violent means or ideology available to enforce their gaining of power, the firsthand reports I've gotten back from people I know who have been there have been that the Maoists are totally undeserving of any sympathy and are downright scary. There is an alternative though to an inept and violent government versus a FARC/Pol Pot inspired rebel distopia. Leave the ideology of death behind and work instead for genuinely better conditions for the common Nepalese through an emphasis on security, education, and the rest of the basics.

The model Kaplan discusses in Imperial Grunts is clear blueprint for most of what it takes to make this happen. At least that's how I've approached my reading of it so far.
lane
September 24, 2005
4:19 pm
This post reminded me of this Independent Lens documentary:

The Day my God Died

According to the United Nations, thousands of women and children throughout the world disappear each day to be sold into sexual slavery. Many of these are Nepalese girls who are abducted, often by someone they trust, and sold into sexual servitude in Kamthipura, a nightmarish red-light district in Bombay, India. Known as "the cages,"Â? Kamthipura holds more than 200,000 young women and children in captivity, and for the majority of those who are brought here, it is also a death sentence.

THE DAY MY GOD DIED puts a human face on these abstract numbers as it recounts the stories of several Nepalese girls who were forced into the international child sex trade.
mark safranski
September 24, 2005
4:59 pm
Emma,

It takes but scant intelligence to note that civil wars are often not a case of good vs. bad guys but bad guys vs. worse ones.

Giving Maoists anywhere the benefit of the doubt at this stage of history requires more than moral blindness - it requires actively disconnecting from known facts - such as the Communist insurgency beginning in 1996, not 2005 so your alleged beef about the present Nepalese autocracy doesn't wash with me.

Did the Cultural Revolution teach you nothing ? The Khmer Rouge ? The Shining Path ? What sort of transformational exception are you expecting out of this brand of messianic Maoist thugs ?
ron Patterson
September 24, 2005
11:53 pm
I have no doubt that the LEFT will support the maoist and when Nepal becomes another Cambodia, will blame it on the U.S. There is oppurtunity here for the U.S. to make a difference. nepal is strategically located. An effort by the U.S. to provide an alternative mocel, pressure the government for reform and coopt the maoist programs that seem to work. Sex slavery! Yes i agree with the The Jew the U.S. is giving a pass to these repeat offenders. Slavery is a vile scourge which should not be tolerated. A clear message must be sent to the rapist of little girls and the governments which profit from this abomination. NO EXCEPTIONS!!
Emma
September 25, 2005
4:43 am
I have written this three times, but somehow it's never publishing... anyway....
to be quick-
1. the day my god died is not about maoists. i have just recently finished the translation of this film into complete nepali and am using it in remote education. it's a great flick but not about maoists. i have also been to khamatipura and spoken with nepali sex trafficked girls and women in the area... devestating. but not about maoism.

2. in a country run by a king whose hand is not free from the blood of the entire royal family he succeeded... it's hard to trust him. plus, i have already said in my personal blog- yes, i understand historically communism has never been seen in a pure and uncorrupted form (following the true philosophical points of communistic thought), but one still has to take a greater look at why a regime would rise up. they don't just start from nowhere- there is a reason and it's called lack of government concern for the people.

3. i have been aruond maoists many of times. had my house graffitiied by them... had them over for tea....had my village be at the hand of the 4 hour propaganda sessions...had friends abducted and even been in the biggest attack in Maoist history (beni, 2004).... yet through it alll- i have never been personally threatened and even my abducted friends were treated kindly. on the flip side, i have been treated harshly by the army- had guns pointed at me inappropriate talk spoken to me- and i have had my friends forcefully grabbed, threatened and hit by soldiers... so, instead of just using the blanket philosophy "the maoists are the evil ones" let's take a closer look at the problem.

Also, comparing the Maoists to the Khmer Rouge seems a bit ridiculous. I would like to know about your personal encounters with either the Khmer Rouge or Maoists.... Let's hear from Matthew McCallester, a war journalist who has experienced both:

"The Khmer Rouge made a point to kill foreigners. Maiosts make is a point to embrace them and to bless them."

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-womao144384259aug14,0,5133754.story?page=2&coll=ny-nationworld-world-utility
Emma
September 25, 2005
4:44 am
PS- I would like to pose one question....

is drafting soldiers for a war, in say, an American led war, considered trafficking?
Emma
September 25, 2005
4:52 am
Oh yeah, and I like the idea about ownership shares... however, the people who cannot pay taxes probably didn't even pass 7th grade... so it might be a tad unrealistic to think we can apply the idea of share holding with any sort of success.
mark safranski
September 25, 2005
5:32 am
Personal contact - hmm. None with Shining Path though some ten years ago I did talk at length with a Cambodian who had been drafted into the Khmer Rouge as a child-soldier and then escaped to Thailand with a younger brother, the rest of the family having been killed. Eventually he made it to Chicago as a refugee. I've had more experience interviewing Holocaust survivors but their stories weren't any worse than his.

The Nepalese Maoists are not yet in power and they're already engaging in forced labor. Good grief, what does that foreshadow ?

Yes, I'll give you that the Maoists aren't beheading people on videotape like Zarqawi or being as wantonly cruel as The Lord's Resistance Army in Africa but so what ? Why would you want to replace a weak and erratic tyrant with a methodical and potentially strong one ? How does that help the Nepalese ?
ron Patterson
September 26, 2005
12:05 am
Dear Emma lived in Cambodia, currently live in China. Please explain what "pure communism " is. Please explain to me the difference in Adam Smith,s "invisable hand of capitalism" and dialectical materialism.
No one is arguing that the current government of Nepal is a just one, rather history strongly suggests that the Maoist could be worse. What i believe is that the responders on this board are after is how to offer an alternative. You had rebels to tea and you wonder why the army treated you harshly. There is a middle ground that has a proven record of sucess at offering the most freedoms to the most people. Not Marx,s borrowed ideas, that lead to a "big bother' society. REad Edmund Burke
Peter
September 26, 2005
9:12 pm
"PS- I would like to pose one question"¦.

is drafting soldiers for a war, in say, an American led war, considered trafficking?"

Uh, there is no draft.
Emma
September 27, 2005
4:12 am
it's a hypothetical situation, Peter.
Curzon
September 27, 2005
11:40 am
Drafting is fine, as is, in cases of extreme poverty, a "labor tax payment" in lieu of a "cash tax payment." Draft is, when necessary, a price of citizenship. So is taxes.

The ultimate points here were raised by Ron and Mark above. Yes, "the situation in Nepal is dreadful, and the government forces are appalling.":http://www.cominganarchy.com/2005/04/25/coming-anarchy-in-nepal/ That's not the question. The question is, would a Maoist regime be better? The history of communist and maoist rebels, combined with the current "abduction" record of the Maoists in Nepal, suggests a terrifying future if they take power.
Emma
September 27, 2005
12:32 pm
Hey, and I am honestly not in the belief that Maoists would be better ruling Nepal- but what I think is that we are too quick to judge everything that Maoists do as "bad" or "terrorist-like" and we don't take a good look at everything else around. I think it is absurd that America has ever given a dime to the Nepali gov't to 'combat' the problem of Maoists.... seriously- why give a corrupt government money to put in their back pocket?
Kenneth
September 28, 2005
12:40 am
To prevent large-scale genocide of the type that happened in Cambodia, perhaps?
Emma
September 28, 2005
3:25 am
And if you think any of that money is actually going to thwarting the problem- you better take another long hard look at the problem. The thing is- virtually all main cities like Pokhara and Kathmandu are uneffected by the Maoist problems. So, if this is the case, why is the government doing nothing to stop Maoist activities on villagesides? They were getting a lot of money to do so....
Let's talk about this facade of check points. They are all over Nepal. Everyone exits the bus/car while while army personnel check the vehicle. The interesting thing is- foreigners don't have to exit. So, during these 'checks' does the army even search anything? No. They get on the bus look around- don't even unzip bags- and then get off. I've watched it dozens of times. So, let's spend money on checkpoints everywhere, but really not check anything at all. The bus could be carrying dozens of bombs and not be detected because the check point isn't even checking anything. It's all a false sense of action.
Emma
September 28, 2005
3:26 am
PS- a genocide is the getting rid of an entire ethnicity. The Maoists are not after any particular group of people- they are not trying to wipe out Pun-Magar or Newari people. They aren't even after 'intellectuals'.
Kenneth
September 28, 2005
9:58 pm
I never said that the money was actually doing anything, rather I was simply highlighting the intentions of those who provided it. "Genocide" is used loosely here to refer to mass murder, but it can refer to the extermination of an entire political group.
Jay
September 30, 2005
2:29 am
Actually Emma, Communists engage in "democide"--"equal opportunity" mass murder, so to speak--after they achieve final victory and consolidate their control (and usually beginning with the process of consolidating their control). Some of the worst violence and greatest casulaties occurs during this period. Communists themselves, and their allies and sympathizers, often end up making up the greater number of victims, as the more hard-core ideologues take control and seek to purge the lukewarm types or moderates (in fact, more Communists [or other types of radical-leftists] have been murdered by fellow Communists [or radical- leftists] than have been murdered by all "right-wing" dictatorships put together).
Mutantfrog
September 30, 2005
8:42 am
Jay - "(in fact, more Communists [or other types of radical-leftists] have been murdered by fellow Communists [or radical- leftists] than have been murdered by all "right-wing"Â? dictatorships put together"

I don't mean to defend the Communists, but wouldn't you agree that this is partly because Communist regimes have been drastically larger in size and duration than any fascist government? Personally, I think that had Hitler actually managed to conquer all of Europe and hold onto it for 50 years that the death toll could easily have approached that of the Soviet Union or Communist China (at least as a proportion of the total- there's a LOT more people in China.)
J.Kende
September 30, 2005
8:09 pm
True, but might there be something to be said for Nazi/Fascist regimes being too deadly to be sustainable over such large distances for so long? Much like Ebola is a victim of it's own lethality...

Not to say they shouldn't each be fought with every fiber of our being.
ComingAnarchy.com » Blog Archive » Coming Anarchy in Nepal?
April 11, 2006
5:57 am
[...] See that hammer and sickle? To paraphrase one blogger with similar sentiments, I’d find it easy to be ecstatic about uprisings like this one and I’m all for democracy in Nepal, but the big elephant in the room is the alternative to the current regime: not a democratic panacea but a violent Maoist army. Yes, the King is a royal shit, no pun intended. But just as Robert D. Kaplan once said about the Saudis, King Gyanendra is probably the most unhelpful, reactionary regime that one could imagine, except for any other that could come into being. [...]