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	<title>Comments on: Democracy Meltdown: How Hitler Got&#160;Elected</title>
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	<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/08/27/democracy-meltdown-how-hitler-got-elected/</link>
	<description>Speak Victorian, Think Pagan</description>
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		<title>By: ComingAnarchy.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Dangers of Democracy; Democracies in Danger</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/08/27/democracy-meltdown-how-hitler-got-elected/comment-page-1/#comment-52513</link>
		<dc:creator>ComingAnarchy.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Dangers of Democracy; Democracies in Danger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Dec 2005 02:46:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=1037#comment-52513</guid>
		<description>[...] We give Putin so much flack for stifling democracy, but his authoritarian rule is a good thing if this is the face of the opposition. I mean, even those who may not think much of Bush would be happy if his opposition was the Ku Klux Klan, no? The rise of the Rodina does echo of how Hitler&#8217;s Nazi party came to power. Elections don&#8217;t equal democracy. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] We give Putin so much flack for stifling democracy, but his authoritarian rule is a good thing if this is the face of the opposition. I mean, even those who may not think much of Bush would be happy if his opposition was the Ku Klux Klan, no? The rise of the Rodina does echo of how Hitler&#8217;s Nazi party came to power. Elections don&#8217;t equal democracy. [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: IJ</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/08/27/democracy-meltdown-how-hitler-got-elected/comment-page-1/#comment-19866</link>
		<dc:creator>IJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2005 11:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=1037#comment-19866</guid>
		<description>Curzon responded earlier to accusations of serious double standards in US foreign policy: &quot;Centralized power is indeed vastly underrated, as are enlightened dictatorships in leading more primitive societies to modernity and development.&quot;

Enlightened dictatorships?  This is very topical: a key change the US seems to be proposing (the precise details are secret) for next month&#039;s World Summit is that trade, foreign investment, and aid should be conditional on good governance and sound economic policies.

Who is going to set the example for these essentials?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curzon responded earlier to accusations of serious double standards in US foreign policy: &#8220;Centralized power is indeed vastly underrated, as are enlightened dictatorships in leading more primitive societies to modernity and development.&#8221;</p>

<p>Enlightened dictatorships?  This is very topical: a key change the US seems to be proposing (the precise details are secret) for next month&#8217;s World Summit is that trade, foreign investment, and aid should be conditional on good governance and sound economic policies.</p>

<p>Who is going to set the example for these essentials?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: snow</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/08/27/democracy-meltdown-how-hitler-got-elected/comment-page-1/#comment-19727</link>
		<dc:creator>snow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=1037#comment-19727</guid>
		<description>Sorry, the previous comment should have been preceded by this quote:

&quot;The real purpose of WWII was to channel working class hostility against the ruling class itself, through racism. It worked. Today, George and Osama are doing the same thing, except this time around they are using religion.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, the previous comment should have been preceded by this quote:</p>

<p>&#8220;The real purpose of <span class="caps">WWII </span>was to channel working class hostility against the ruling class itself, through racism. It worked. Today, George and Osama are doing the same thing, except this time around they are using religion.&#8221;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: snow</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/08/27/democracy-meltdown-how-hitler-got-elected/comment-page-1/#comment-19720</link>
		<dc:creator>snow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2005 07:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=1037#comment-19720</guid>
		<description>

Please spare us the dubious leftist theories. Hasn&#039;t the world had enough of class warfare theories, which have pretty much been debunked. I highly doubt that Hitler remotely thought this way. He was concerned with building his power and he did it in any way he could.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please spare us the dubious leftist theories. Hasn&#8217;t the world had enough of class warfare theories, which have pretty much been debunked. I highly doubt that Hitler remotely thought this way. He was concerned with building his power and he did it in any way he could.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: J.Kende</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/08/27/democracy-meltdown-how-hitler-got-elected/comment-page-1/#comment-19582</link>
		<dc:creator>J.Kende</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2005 00:59:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=1037#comment-19582</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think leftism is idealistic and naive. I think it is weakly reasoned, cynical, degrading.... and worse than naive: willfully ignorant. 

It also sucks in far too many well intentioned, otherwise thoughtful, respectfully idealistic, passionate, dedicated, and caring young people of upstanding personal character who who are hooked into the vision of the world of the left because they are often exposed directly to very little else. But that vision corrupts, and over time even those bright lights dim because of it. 

Get out while you can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think leftism is idealistic and naive. I think it is weakly reasoned, cynical, degrading&#8230;. and worse than naive: willfully ignorant. </p>

<p>It also sucks in far too many well intentioned, otherwise thoughtful, respectfully idealistic, passionate, dedicated, and caring young people of upstanding personal character who who are hooked into the vision of the world of the left because they are often exposed directly to very little else. But that vision corrupts, and over time even those bright lights dim because of it. </p>

<p>Get out while you can.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Curzon</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/08/27/democracy-meltdown-how-hitler-got-elected/comment-page-1/#comment-19554</link>
		<dc:creator>Curzon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Aug 2005 00:09:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=1037#comment-19554</guid>
		<description>Cowlick -- nice attempt at pretty words (&quot;hanging from the neck of a whipped horse, crying like an innocent babe&quot;), and in your sophomoric poetry, you have a point.  There&#039;s nothing wanting in my realism if you can handle logic 101.  Centralized power is indeed vastly underrated, as are &lt;strong&gt;&quot;enlightened dictatorships&quot;:http://www.cominganarchy.com/2005/03/24/bad-democracies-good-dictatorships &lt;/strong&gt;in leading more primitive societies to modernity and development.  But if you think regimes like Hussein&#039;s Iraq, Kim&#039;s North Korea, or today&#039;s Burma, Zimbabwe, Turkmenistan, and a handful more fit into that category... we then it&#039;s unlikely we agree on anything.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cowlick &#8212; nice attempt at pretty words (&#8221;hanging from the neck of a whipped horse, crying like an innocent babe&#8221;), and in your sophomoric poetry, you have a point.  There&#8217;s nothing wanting in my realism if you can handle logic 101.  Centralized power is indeed vastly underrated, as are <strong><a href="http://www.cominganarchy.com/2005/03/24/bad-democracies-good-dictatorships">enlightened dictatorships</a> </strong>in leading more primitive societies to modernity and development.  But if you think regimes like Hussein&#8217;s Iraq, Kim&#8217;s North Korea, or today&#8217;s Burma, Zimbabwe, Turkmenistan, and a handful more fit into that category&#8230; we then it&#8217;s unlikely we agree on anything.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: maskull</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/08/27/democracy-meltdown-how-hitler-got-elected/comment-page-1/#comment-19464</link>
		<dc:creator>maskull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2005 18:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=1037#comment-19464</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the edification.  Because of the 43.0% it has been in vogue lately to state that actually Hitler was not elected ...

Which has put a kink in pointing to B. J. Clinton &quot;the most popular elected leader since Adolf Hitler&quot; ...

The main consideration is the overwhelming, undeniable popularity of these guys.  Adolf Hitler.  Jo-Jo Stalin.  Mao.  Pol Pot.

Now if the people who tore down the statues of Stalin or Sadam had stopped to consider how much they could get on eBay ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the edification.  Because of the 43.0% it has been in vogue lately to state that actually Hitler was not elected &#8230;</p>

<p>Which has put a kink in pointing to B. J. Clinton &#8220;the most popular elected leader since Adolf Hitler&#8221; &#8230;</p>

<p>The main consideration is the overwhelming, undeniable popularity of these guys.  Adolf Hitler.  Jo-Jo Stalin.  Mao.  Pol Pot.</p>

<p>Now if the people who tore down the statues of Stalin or Sadam had stopped to consider how much they could get on eBay &#8230;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: cowlick</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/08/27/democracy-meltdown-how-hitler-got-elected/comment-page-1/#comment-19461</link>
		<dc:creator>cowlick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Aug 2005 17:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=1037#comment-19461</guid>
		<description>Hitler was Appointed chancellor because he was seen as the only one brutal enough to be able to Kill-off working class people who were striking in the hundreds of thousands at that time, there and in the US and in the Stalinist Soviet Union.  The real purpose of WWII was to channel working class hostility against the ruling class toward itself, through racism.  It worked.

Today, George and Osama are doing the same thing, except this time around they are using religion.  Duh!

The Coming Anarchy thesis and what it has led to has a big, glaring, gigantic flaw:  If it is true that raw, centralized power is necessary to prevent the outbreak of anarchy, then why in the world was it necessary to topple that paragon of raw, centralized power preventing civil war called Saddam Hussein?  Can you tell me WTF the logic is here?  Because it does seem to me that there is a BIG contradiction in your logic.

Mr. &quot;Curzon&quot; would have everyone believe that leftism is idealistic and naive; it is, however, ironic that, when it is once pointed out to him that the purpose modern wars has been to kill-off the working class, his hard-edged &quot;realism&quot; is found wanting:  appartently, the world is a nasty and brutish place, but not so much that the ruling class would actually have the working class kill itself off by nurturing its racism and religious fanaticism.

Alas, it seems to me smug Mr. Curzon&#039;s fate is the same as that other nihilistic &quot;realist&quot;:  hanging from the neck of a whipped horse, crying like an innocent babe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hitler was Appointed chancellor because he was seen as the only one brutal enough to be able to Kill-off working class people who were striking in the hundreds of thousands at that time, there and in the US and in the Stalinist Soviet Union.  The real purpose of <span class="caps">WWII </span>was to channel working class hostility against the ruling class toward itself, through racism.  It worked.</p>

<p>Today, George and Osama are doing the same thing, except this time around they are using religion.  Duh!</p>

<p>The Coming Anarchy thesis and what it has led to has a big, glaring, gigantic flaw:  If it is true that raw, centralized power is necessary to prevent the outbreak of anarchy, then why in the world was it necessary to topple that paragon of raw, centralized power preventing civil war called Saddam Hussein?  Can you tell me <span class="caps">WTF </span>the logic is here?  Because it does seem to me that there is a <span class="caps">BIG </span>contradiction in your logic.</p>

<p>Mr. &#8220;Curzon&#8221; would have everyone believe that leftism is idealistic and naive; it is, however, ironic that, when it is once pointed out to him that the purpose modern wars has been to kill-off the working class, his hard-edged &#8220;realism&#8221; is found wanting:  appartently, the world is a nasty and brutish place, but not so much that the ruling class would actually have the working class kill itself off by nurturing its racism and religious fanaticism.</p>

<p>Alas, it seems to me smug Mr. Curzon&#8217;s fate is the same as that other nihilistic &#8220;realist&#8221;:  hanging from the neck of a whipped horse, crying like an innocent babe.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dr. Alfred Russel Wallace</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/08/27/democracy-meltdown-how-hitler-got-elected/comment-page-1/#comment-19233</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Alfred Russel Wallace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2005 21:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=1037#comment-19233</guid>
		<description>Hitler&#039;s rise to power should certainly be a constant reminder that a functional democracy should not be confused with &quot;democratically elected government&quot;. We are fortunate, indeed, that the US has a system pf checks and balances that offers some protection against the abuse of the system practised by Hitler and his cronies, but we still need constant vigilence.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hitler&#8217;s rise to power should certainly be a constant reminder that a functional democracy should not be confused with &#8220;democratically elected government&#8221;. We are fortunate, indeed, that the US has a system pf checks and balances that offers some protection against the abuse of the system practised by Hitler and his cronies, but we still need constant vigilence&#8230;..</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: J.Kende</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/08/27/democracy-meltdown-how-hitler-got-elected/comment-page-1/#comment-19231</link>
		<dc:creator>J.Kende</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2005 21:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=1037#comment-19231</guid>
		<description>But the current appeasers are neither nice or wise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But the current appeasers are neither nice or wise.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chief Wiggum</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/08/27/democracy-meltdown-how-hitler-got-elected/comment-page-1/#comment-19229</link>
		<dc:creator>Chief Wiggum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2005 20:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=1037#comment-19229</guid>
		<description>This reminded me of a bit in _Warrior Politics_, by our friend Mr. Kaplan:

&quot;The River War&quot; _and Churchill&#039;s World War II speeches are all examples of a particular kind of hardheadedness- the ability to establish moral priorities.  The appeasers found it morally repugnant to seek an allance with Stalin or to support a military coup against Hitler, since he had come to power democratically, notwithstanding postelection backroom deals.  The appeasers, writes Professor Rahe, indulged their moral sensitivities at a terrible cost; &quot;they were more nice than wise.  In refusing to commit the smaller sin, the incurred a far greater wrong.&quot;_  (p. 26)

Regarding our present intrigues, does any of this sound familiar?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminded me of a bit in <em>Warrior Politics</em>, by our friend Mr. Kaplan:</p>

<p>&#8220;The River War&#8221; <em>and Churchill&#8217;s World War II speeches are all examples of a particular kind of hardheadedness- the ability to establish moral priorities.  The appeasers found it morally repugnant to seek an allance with Stalin or to support a military coup against Hitler, since he had come to power democratically, notwithstanding postelection backroom deals.  The appeasers, writes Professor Rahe, indulged their moral sensitivities at a terrible cost; &#8220;they were more nice than wise.  In refusing to commit the smaller sin, the incurred a far greater wrong.&#8221;</em>  (p. 26)</p>

<p>Regarding our present intrigues, does any of this sound familiar?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chirol</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/08/27/democracy-meltdown-how-hitler-got-elected/comment-page-1/#comment-19217</link>
		<dc:creator>Chirol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2005 13:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=1037#comment-19217</guid>
		<description>Darn you for beating me to a German related post =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darn you for beating me to a German related post =)</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Eye Dream Awake</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/08/27/democracy-meltdown-how-hitler-got-elected/comment-page-1/#comment-19213</link>
		<dc:creator>Eye Dream Awake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Aug 2005 11:50:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=1037#comment-19213</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Why Democracy Isn&#039;t Enough&lt;/strong&gt;

Speaking of Coming Anarchy, Curzon wrote an entry yesterday about the rise of Hitler that I don&#039;t really have words for. It&#039;s very good. Read it here....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Why Democracy Isn&#8217;t Enough</strong></p>

<p>Speaking of Coming Anarchy, Curzon wrote an entry yesterday about the rise of Hitler that I don&#8217;t really have words for. It&#8217;s very good. Read it here&#8230;.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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