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Chirol
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Chirol

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August 9th, 2005

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A Line in the Sand

While the news remains filled with talk of terrorism in London, Sharm al-Sheikh or in Iraq, the more pressing situation in North Korea continues to occupy the back burner of public consciousness. As with Iraq, the North Korean situation has been very poorly outlined to the general public. They know Kim Jong Il is a nutty nuke-wielding, shorter-than-average guy with a really bad haircut. Most people know we have soldiers stationed in South Korea. But what exactly is going on over there? While I usually leave Asian topics to Curzon and Younghusband whose extensive knowledge and on the ground experience in the region far outweighs mine, I thought it interesting to pose a few basic questions/statementions that still remain unanswered and debated with my answers and room for readers’ as well.

1. Clinton is at fault because North Korea broke the 1994 agreement.

Wrong. While neither Democrat or Republican, I take a dim view of those on the right who tend to immediately and anachronistically blame him for problems occuring during the present administration. Though the North Koreans indeed renegged on their agreement, it should firstly not come as a surprise nor as unprecendented. The Soviets broke almost every agreement we had with them but it was still better to have some sort of framework than nothing. Some order is better than total chaos. Estimates put North Korea’s nuclear arsenal at around 10 now. Had there been no restrictions at all, it would almost certainly be much higher now.

2. What or where is the line in the sand which cannot be crossed?

If developing nuclear weapons didn’t lead to war, then what will? A clear line in the sand must be drawn which will trigger an attack. Should it be nuclear testing? Nuclear material or technology sold to third parties? Continued development? Should it be a time limit?

3. Our deterrent

A line in the sand is the most important deterrent, but what else? We need to make clear that for every nuke used by North Korea against us or our allies that we’ll use 100 (which should be fairly clear anyway). Should we also threaten to go nuclear in the event of chemical or biological attacks or proliferation? Additionally, should we lend our nuclear missles to allies in Japan, Taiwan and South Korea as we did to Europeans during the cold war? This would prevent nuclear proliferation among our allies but still give them a nucler capability, albeit under our control and would go a long way to ease their minds.

4. Can a war with North Korea be won?

Yes. While messy, North Korea nevertheless has no chance against the United States. Their best bet is to ensure the war is too costly to be undertaken as the outcome has been and is still clear. Yet, even with an all out war, America would still clearly come out on top. The problem herein lies in the basic human inability to accurately weigh long term effects versus short term ones. While a war with North Korea would mean terrible death and destruction for America, South Korea, North Korea and possibly neighbors such as Japan, the long term threat of North Korea with dozens more warheads and nuclear, chemical and biological weapon technology or weapons themselves being sold would do much more damage.

5. What comes after?

A state like North Korea with its stockpiles of WMD is not only a present danger to the entire world, but its collapse infinitely moreso. North Korea in ruins would be a smugglers paradise and a terrorists Toys R Us. North Korea may use the weapons it possesses but terrorists would definitely use them. Thus, in the wake of the recent attacks in London, Europe should hopefully be more responsive to the fact that they wouldbe just as much in danger as would be should North Korea collapse with or without war. Thus, they direly need to be brought on board.

America has thusfar resisted bilateral talks with the North Koreans saying we don’t want to reward bad behavior but Kim already has nukes, what more bad behavior will be rewarding. The facts on the ground are the same and the sooner we fully explore all diplomatic routes, the sooner we’ll have the legitimacy to use force if necssary while enjoying international backing.

Conclusion

As we’ve seen, though Iraq was clearly an international threat, it was not a pressing one. Iran, while definitely an up and coming threat, still has time whereas North Korea is a problem today. They do have all three forms of WMD guaranteed and the question for the present administration is not about good and bad solutions, it’s about the best of the worst. It’s already too late.

Comments to this entry

Mutantfrog
August 10, 2005
2:04 pm
Additionally, should we lend our nuclear missles to allies in Japan, Taiwan and South Korea as we did to Europeans during the cold war? This would prevent nuclear proliferation among our allies but still give them a nucler capability, albeit under our control and would go a long way to ease their minds.


The answer to your question is a big NO. Taiwan was in the process of developing nuclear weapons in the 70s, and South Korea was in the 80s. They only stopped under force of US pressure and a condition that there would be no foreign nuclear weapons in their respective territory. If we bring nukes into either Taiwan or South Korea, they would probably resume their dead programs and have their own nuclear weapons within a few months.

As for Japan, they have a very strict anti-nukes policy (which on the 60th anniversary of their own bombing is not likely to be changed in the immediate future), and even if they were to relax that policy, they don't need OUR nukes. They have a huge amount of weapons grade nuclear material stockpiled from their supply of nuclear power plants, and the technology to manufacture dozens if not hundreds of nuclear weapons practically overnight, if they desired to. Not to mention the fact that, as one of the few countries with a space program, they could actually construct effective ICBMs that could reach anywhere on Earth.
futuremongolian
August 10, 2005
6:25 pm
*3. Our deterrent*

this paragraph is a bit counterintuitive. Of course I highly doubt that North Korea would ever get to a point where they could successfully launch a nuclear attack against S.Korea or Japan, but do you seriously believe that dropping a hundred nuclear bombs on an area so close in proximity to *our allies* would do them any good? the environmental fallout would be devestating, and project itself hundreds of years into the future.

Would South Koreans ever accept such an action? half of their history and race being wiped off the Earth? they do still desire reunification, their brothers, to the North, although highly caustic, are not merely faceless terrorists.

regarding weapons, mitsubishi designs the targeting systems for Americas patriot missiles, so they wont be looking for handouts anytime soon.
Chirol
August 10, 2005
6:25 pm
Mutantfrog: The entire idea is that by borrowing ours, we essentially give them a nuclear deterrent under our control and make them promise not to restart their past programs. And additionally, the point is that it should be more of a credible threat than something we'd actually do. However, in the face of North Korea's behavior, it would not be very hard to justify such a move.
ComingAnarchy.com » Blog Archive » Europe Ruins the Day….Again
August 10, 2005
6:46 pm
[...] Next Post: Previous Post: « A Line in the Sand [...]
Mutantfrog
August 11, 2005
3:53 am
Chirol: I understand your point, I'm just saying that the plan would make no sense from their perspective. The US already has nukes in the Pacific region in other bases, or on missile launching submarines, that can target North Korea, China, or whatever other country potentially threatens a military ally.

Also, at a time when we're trying to get North Korea to dismantle their nuclear weapons and to get China to dismantle their non-nuclear (but probably armed with chemical weapons) missiles pointed at Taiwan, bringing in more force would just continue an arms race mentality on both sides.
Eddie
August 11, 2005
9:07 am
Our hands are increasingly tied because of the brainwashed South Korean public, which has been fed a bunch of BS about NK by their own government (see yesterday's op-ed in the Christian Science Monitor for great analysis on this from Korean observers).
If we can't get South Korea to get tough with the North Koreans, there will be little hope for negotiations or military action.
Kushibo
August 11, 2005
9:56 am
Eddie, I wouldn't put too much faith in what the CSM has to say.

Anyway, there is by no means a universal opinion on the matter here in South Korea. With things like college students calling for the ouster of a professor who recently praised Kim Ilsung for trying to reunify the country, it's clear the pendulum is beginning to swing back the other way. A conservative win in two years is likely (but not guaranteed).
Eddie
August 11, 2005
11:17 am
Kushibo, I agree that particular article is flawed, the one I am talking about is the op-ed written by Won Joon Choe and Jack Kim. What they talk about is similar to what I have learned from time spent in South Korea and discussions with Koreans. America has a very serious South Korea problem and we may not have the luxury of just waiting for the popular misconception of North Korea to vanish. Plus, it is not just anti-American confused students I worry about, but Korean nationalists willing to do whatever to advance their interests and goals.
ComingAnarchy.com » Blog Archive » Chirol compels me
August 12, 2005
7:21 am
[...] Is a line in the sand our best policy? A rebuttal to my comrade’s recent post on dealing with North Korea. [...]
Live From The FDNF
August 16, 2005
8:37 am
South Korea's Delusion

As options for dealing with North Korea (not that there are any good options on the table) are discussed, there is often a tendency to view things from only our perspective as Americans. Rarely do you find serious looks at
ron Patterson
August 19, 2005
2:04 pm
yes give missles to our allies. surround the Norks with massive force, make clear that theior destruction is the end result of any game they may play. Push for regime change. Quit trying to be rational with these animals. They are starving and butchering their own people. If America and the West stand for something then let us show it. To negotiate with murderers is abhorent. Sometimes force is the answer. Save the people of North Korea!!!