Comments on: 7-7

By: Dan

Dan — Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:49:23 +0000

“I don’t see to many facts represented by the assertion that the Patriot Act has somehow deterred crime.”

It’s not designed to. It’s designed to deter terrorism.

George Friedman argued that August 2004 was the best time for an al-Qaeda attack, and so the US government “ran interference” with USA PATRIOT powers

http://tdaxp.blogspirit.com/archive/2005/01/27/america_s_secret_war.html

By: heirabbit

heirabbit — Sun, 10 Jul 2005 13:34:45 +0000

I don’t see to many facts represented by the assertion that the Patriot Act has somehow deterred crime. It’s basically bureaucratic, and keeps cops doing what they like to, which is staying away from dangerous people. Just an aside, but the 9.11 terrorists had legal identities, post-patroit act they would have gotten on the plane all the same. The biggest security threat in America is the insecure border with Mexico, and there’s little being done about that. Anybody could walk accross carrying anything, and it’s still that way. The provocations leading to the terrorist response have only increased, and I’d still say the U.S. is a prime target.

By: Sheridan

Sheridan — Sat, 09 Jul 2005 01:55:41 +0000

I’m sure that the SAS might have a thing or two to say about who actually makes it to the court system to be prosecuted. They have to be frothing at the mouth over a well executed Al Qaeda assault on their watch.
Maybe too busy watching the IRA?

By: Grendel

Grendel — Fri, 08 Jul 2005 14:00:38 +0000

Does anyone still want to argue against the death penalty should they find people who were involved?

I guess I was meant.
And the answer is yes, I do. Also, Great Britain is not going to reintroduce capital punishment only to execute the terrorists involved, but submit them to a court, judge them according to the evidence and punish them by law as it should be.

Curseon, get rid of that typo ;-)

By: Mutantfrog

Mutantfrog — Fri, 08 Jul 2005 08:43:12 +0000

England has a very long history of IRA terrorist attacks, and very little history of legal protection of privacy from the state. I’m quite sure that British police had powers comparable to those granted under the Patriot Act long before 9.11.

By: Curzon

Curzon — Fri, 08 Jul 2005 07:51:41 +0000

Hitchens says it best:
The Anticipated Attack: Don’t blame Iraq for the bombings

By: Matt

Matt — Fri, 08 Jul 2005 07:49:53 +0000

“Make no mistake: this was not a protest of the Iraq War…”

This seems like a dangerous assumption. How do you know this wasn’t a protest of the Iraq War?

By: Younghusband

Younghusband — Fri, 08 Jul 2005 05:06:43 +0000

How to verify a terrorist group’s claim of responsibility

By: snow

snow — Fri, 08 Jul 2005 02:21:33 +0000

Well, Grendel, I may be mistaken on this, but I heard that in some countries, such as Germany and France, there already exists security laws quite similar to those in the Patriot Act. I’m sorry I don’t have a link and can’t even remember where I read it, but I read that France has had some fairly drastic anti-terrorism regulations as far back as 1986 and Germany, as of the early 90’s.

By: Curzon

Curzon — Fri, 08 Jul 2005 00:11:41 +0000

Dan: We are dealing with criminal fanatics. There is no state sponsor or major target to strike overseas. The enemy is within. If this was Chechen seperatists or Iraqi insurgents we could call them warriors.

Grendal & MF: Unfortunately, a Patriot Act in Europe will not happen until much, much worse things happen.

By: Younghusband

Younghusband — Thu, 07 Jul 2005 23:28:48 +0000

Regarding my numerology theorum, I still haven’t found out the significance of the number 7.

Not to make light of the situation, but somehow I don’t think the motivation was Tanabata.

By: tdaxp

tdaxp — Thu, 07 Jul 2005 22:30:19 +0000

Bin Laden’s Love for 7 / 7

"David DUCHOVNY step aside!," by Younghusband, Coming Anarchy, 2 October 2004, http://www.cominganarchy.com/2004/10/02/david-duchovny-step-aside/ (from Curzon at Coming Anarchy).Younghusband of CA saw al Qaeda’s love of sev…

By: Dan

Dan — Thu, 07 Jul 2005 22:12:13 +0000

“This was the criminal act of fanatics seeking to damage the soft underbelly of the globalized world as best they could. Jet planes are no longer an option, so they’ve gone to the ground: first train attacks in Madrid, and now subway and bus attacks in London. Carried out during rush hour, clearly they are trying to hurt as many people as possible with the limited means they have available. We are dealing with the lowest form of human existence. I implore you: take no prisoners.”

So are we dealing with criminals or warriors?

It’s bizarre to treat them as both.

That would be like FDR promising to prosecute the pilots who attacked Pearl Harbor.

By: Grendel

Grendel — Thu, 07 Jul 2005 19:45:34 +0000

A “Patriot Act for Europe” is completely out of the question, such assaults on civil liberties would cause a public outrage. Have you actually read the whole paper? I haven’t, it’s 342 pages long, but what I read about it is troubling. While nobody denies that steps have to be taken, it’ll certainly differ from the way terrorism has been dealt with in the US. The victims today were not only the people on the street, but also the west’s modern way of life. Openness, civil liberties and freedom – of which the latter is often described as being so important to Americans – are also under attack. There’s definitively no need to attack it from “the inside” as well and introduce that kind of legislation as you suggested.

I’ve also mailed around, but so far only half of my friends in London answered.

By: The Old Revolution » Blogs on London Blast

The Old Revolution » Blogs on London Blast — Thu, 07 Jul 2005 18:28:54 +0000

[...] ——————— joi ito has some flickr and a wikinews links. —————- pilcrow press has a list of news sources. ————— Coming Anarchy ——————– Here’s an article from Slate: Dispatch From London – In the wake of the terrorist attacks. By David Plotz This has been an extraordinary 24 hours for London. Yesterday afternoon, the International Olympic Committee awarded London the 2012 Summer Games. I was in Trafalgar Square when the announcement came, and the place went crazy. There was shouting and hugging and dancing. It seemed somehow bizarre. It seemed very … un-English. [...]

By: Mutantfrog

Mutantfrog — Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:25:48 +0000

I don’t see how a Patriot Act style law would necessarily have made any difference when the UK doesn’t even have protections similar to those enshrined in the Bill of Rights- surveillance is almost universal in the UK, and the people who did this probably succeeded by just being too smart to attract the attention of the police.

It’s a little early for speculation, but why London today? Some suggest the G8, but then why not Scotland? Some the Olympic bid, but most people expected that to go to France. Was there also a plot to attack instead Paris if they won the Olympic bid? I find that somewhat unlikely that they could have invested so much effort in a secret plan, only to abandon it based on the IOC vote.

As an aside, before 9/11 this would have immediately been blamed on the IRA, but I haven’t even seen them mentioned yet in news coverage.

By: Younghusband

Younghusband — Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:09:50 +0000

I am not sure how the numbers crunch out; nothing happened in Jan of this year. I am inclined to say that this was an attack of opportunity, but what was the purpose? There are so many questions. Did they want just exposure since all eyes are on the UK for the G8 and Olympics? Was it Al Qaeda? With all the terrorism related arrests made in the past year or two in London, how did this get under the radar? What is going on with the Israeli Embassy? Were they suicide or just packaged bombs like on 3/11?

We’ll just have to wait and see for now. I emailed all my London mates to make sure everything is okay with them.

By: Chirol

Chirol — Thu, 07 Jul 2005 16:14:09 +0000

Indeed. Those willing to infringe on the rights of others in such a terrible way forfeit all of their own rights. Does anyone still want to argue against the death penalty should they find people who were involved?

By: The Dustless Workshop

The Dustless Workshop — Thu, 07 Jul 2005 14:53:26 +0000

7 explosions on the 7/7/2005; 2+0+0+5 = 7 => 7777?

You know what, for the first time, I agree with take no prisoners.

By: Eddie

Eddie — Thu, 07 Jul 2005 13:38:04 +0000

It was just about 2-3 hours ago that on our last night in Sydney, Australia, spending our precious few last hours in a bar as most sailors do, the bar quieted and tv channels were changed to coverage of the London bombings. In “liberal” Sydney, its eye-opening to have heard near universal anger and condemnation of Islamic terrorists uttered from the mouths of locals. No discussion of “suspects”, no debate over “human rights”, no claims of this being “Bush and Blair’s fault”… just angry oaths and a pall of sorrow that overtook many of the bars in downtown Sydney as we began our slow, pained walk back to the ship.

We are all in this together. Americans, Brits, Spanish, Germans, French, Afghans, Iraqis, Darfur Sudanese, Israelis, Turks, Indians, etc etc. The sooner we all realize this, the sooner we can wipe this menace off the face of the earth.

As Curzon rightly says, take no prisoners. They cede any and all claims to humanity the moment they engage in the wholesale slaughter of innocent people. No human rights, no due process, just a bullet or a well-placed munitions blast. God help the victims of today’s blasts and may their murderers be quickly eliminated.