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	<title>Comments on: SchrÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶der out the&#160;door?</title>
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	<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/05/26/schroeder-out-the-door/</link>
	<description>Speak Victorian, Think Pagan</description>
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		<title>By: ComingAnarchy.com  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; German Political Gossip</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/05/26/schroeder-out-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-7208</link>
		<dc:creator>ComingAnarchy.com  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; German Political Gossip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2005 21:16:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=674#comment-7208</guid>
		<description>[...] ear old Russian orphan last year with this 45 year old (and fourth) wife.  Thus, after the recent elections and their implications, he&#8217;s decided he&#8217;s h [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ear old Russian orphan last year with this 45 year old (and fourth) wife.  Thus, after the recent elections and their implications, he&#8217;s decided he&#8217;s h [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ComingAnarchy.com  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; CDU Ahead</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/05/26/schroeder-out-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-6915</link>
		<dc:creator>ComingAnarchy.com  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; CDU Ahead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jun 2005 19:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=674#comment-6915</guid>
		<description>[...] uo; Family Ties			 		 		 	 	Related 		 		 			Let the Race BeginJapan&#8217;s Military ShiftSchrÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶der out [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] uo; Family Ties			 		 		 	 	Related 		 		 			Let the Race BeginJapan&#8217;s Military ShiftSchr&Atilde;ƒ&AElig;’&Atilde;‚&Acirc;&para;der out [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: ComingAnarchy.com  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Consquences of French NO</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/05/26/schroeder-out-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-6502</link>
		<dc:creator>ComingAnarchy.com  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Consquences of French NO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jun 2005 08:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=674#comment-6502</guid>
		<description>[...] to forge new ties with individual European states now before they can regroup. As noted in this previous post, that chance may be at hand for Germany. We also need [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to forge new ties with individual European states now before they can regroup. As noted in this previous post, that chance may be at hand for Germany. We also need [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ComingAnarchy.com  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Bon Voyage Chirac?</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/05/26/schroeder-out-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-6273</link>
		<dc:creator>ComingAnarchy.com  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Bon Voyage Chirac?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 May 2005 08:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=674#comment-6273</guid>
		<description>[...] . We&#8217;ll have to wait on France.  	And in case anyone forgot, this is America&#8217;s second blessing in less than a week as Germany&#8217;s Schr&#246;der is  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] . We&#8217;ll have to wait on France.  	And in case anyone forgot, this is America&#8217;s second blessing in less than a week as Germany&#8217;s Schr&ouml;der is  [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chirol</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/05/26/schroeder-out-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-6227</link>
		<dc:creator>Chirol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2005 18:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=674#comment-6227</guid>
		<description>Curzon: I personally don&#039;t know enough about the EU constitution to give you a valid response. Haven&#039;t been Following it. However, I&#039;m also not sure whether a stronger EU or a weaker EU would benefit the US more as there are many advantages and disadvantages of both.

As for Lady Chirol, she&#039;s indepedent and doesn&#039;t always vote along party lines so it&#039;s hard to say. She&#039;s also not particularly interested in politics =(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curzon: I personally don&#8217;t know enough about the EU constitution to give you a valid response. Haven&#8217;t been Following it. However, I&#8217;m also not sure whether a stronger EU or a weaker EU would benefit the US more as there are many advantages and disadvantages of both.</p>

<p>As for Lady Chirol, she&#8217;s indepedent and doesn&#8217;t always vote along party lines so it&#8217;s hard to say. She&#8217;s also not particularly interested in politics =(</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Curzon</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/05/26/schroeder-out-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-6219</link>
		<dc:creator>Curzon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2005 11:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=674#comment-6219</guid>
		<description>How would you have voted in the EU constitution?  How did Ms. Chirol vote?  And how would she vote in the September election?  surely she won&#039;t vote America&#039;s interests...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How would you have voted in the EU constitution?  How did Ms. Chirol vote?  And how would she vote in the September election?  surely she won&#8217;t vote America&#8217;s interests&#8230;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Curzon</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/05/26/schroeder-out-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-6217</link>
		<dc:creator>Curzon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2005 10:36:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=674#comment-6217</guid>
		<description>Two very valuable 2 euro cents, thanks.  Iraq war legal?  I&#039;ll write a memo this weekend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two very valuable 2 euro cents, thanks.  Iraq war legal?  I&#8217;ll write a memo this weekend.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Grendel</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/05/26/schroeder-out-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-6215</link>
		<dc:creator>Grendel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2005 09:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=674#comment-6215</guid>
		<description>Chirol: Since you&#039;re making statements regarding Germany and Germans as a whole, using personal experience as an example is fine, but generalizations and stereotyping are not. Imho, you&#039;re making the same mistake the people you met. What I try to explain is that there&#039;s a difference between (valid) subjective, personal experience and representativeness (which is one aim of  welldone surveys), and your post was missing the latter.

Curzon: Please explain in what way the Iraq war was in compliance with international law? As to your valid question, you didn&#039;t search for information about it I presume. The German Bundeswehr currently has enganged in activies in Bosnia and Herzegowina, Kosovo, Georgia, Afghanistan and Uzbekistan, Athiopia and Eritrea, Cap Horn and Indonesia with over 7,000 troops. Please note that those are only the international engagements. There&#039;s only so much you can do, and the US for example already experience the boundaries of their own, in comparison far more extensive military capabilities. Germany&#039;s Bundeswehr has a far smaller standing army (not mentioning the structural reform it is undergoing) and is a conscript army, too - with the usual impact on its utilisability. In the case of Iraq, the government *did* ask Germany for help, and indeed they do get it. Low-profile enough to be overlooked, I have to concede, but you can read about it &quot;here&quot;:http://www.bmvg.de/C1256F1200608B1B/CurrentBaseLink/N268RHPX205MMISDE

So, to say that Germany doesn&#039;t do anything at all is wrong as well, but then again, you have to look for the information first before stating a black-and-white situation and the case closed. Just my two euro-cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chirol: Since you&#8217;re making statements regarding Germany and Germans as a whole, using personal experience as an example is fine, but generalizations and stereotyping are not. Imho, you&#8217;re making the same mistake the people you met. What I try to explain is that there&#8217;s a difference between (valid) subjective, personal experience and representativeness (which is one aim of  welldone surveys), and your post was missing the latter.</p>

<p>Curzon: Please explain in what way the Iraq war was in compliance with international law? As to your valid question, you didn&#8217;t search for information about it I presume. The German Bundeswehr currently has enganged in activies in Bosnia and Herzegowina, Kosovo, Georgia, Afghanistan and Uzbekistan, Athiopia and Eritrea, Cap Horn and Indonesia with over 7,000 troops. Please note that those are only the international engagements. There&#8217;s only so much you can do, and the US for example already experience the boundaries of their own, in comparison far more extensive military capabilities. Germany&#8217;s Bundeswehr has a far smaller standing army (not mentioning the structural reform it is undergoing) and is a conscript army, too &#8211; with the usual impact on its utilisability. In the case of Iraq, the government <strong>did</strong> ask Germany for help, and indeed they do get it. Low-profile enough to be overlooked, I have to concede, but you can read about it <a href="http://www.bmvg.de/C1256F1200608B1B/CurrentBaseLink/N268RHPX205MMISDE">here</a></p>

<p>So, to say that Germany doesn&#8217;t do anything at all is wrong as well, but then again, you have to look for the information first before stating a black-and-white situation and the case closed. Just my two euro-cents.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chirol</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/05/26/schroeder-out-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-6212</link>
		<dc:creator>Chirol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2005 08:24:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=674#comment-6212</guid>
		<description>Curzon: I would, but for the sole reason that I think it&#039;d be the choice most beneficial to the US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Curzon: I would, but for the sole reason that I think it&#8217;d be the choice most beneficial to the <span class="caps">US.</span></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Curzon</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/05/26/schroeder-out-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-6209</link>
		<dc:creator>Curzon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 May 2005 07:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=674#comment-6209</guid>
		<description>Grendel: Regardless of your incorrect jurisprudence (&quot;One problem with the war was that it broke international law and was completely illegal&quot;), would Germany send troops if the current government of Iraq requested it?  No matter how you slice it the answer is that they would not.  Case closed.  

Chirol: Do I take it you would vote for the CDU if you were German?  Does that conflict with your theological views?  How about the Lady Chirol, who is, I assume, a German citizen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grendel: Regardless of your incorrect jurisprudence (&#8221;One problem with the war was that it broke international law and was completely illegal&#8221;), would Germany send troops if the current government of Iraq requested it?  No matter how you slice it the answer is that they would not.  Case closed.  </p>

<p>Chirol: Do I take it you would vote for the <span class="caps">CDU </span>if you were German?  Does that conflict with your theological views?  How about the Lady Chirol, who is, I assume, a German citizen?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chirol</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/05/26/schroeder-out-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-6196</link>
		<dc:creator>Chirol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2005 22:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=674#comment-6196</guid>
		<description>Grendel: I would say German opinion is pretty anti-US policy and anti-US in general and I have a lot of unfortunate personal experience to back this up. While I don&#039;t think every single person dislikes Americans and American foreign policy, being an American, the first people want to tell you these days are what they think about the States: we are superficial, stupid, don&#039;t know geography, etc. These are the most frequent ones you hear. Of course, all these people have never been to America, don&#039;t study history, politics or sociology and have no clue what they&#039;re talking about, yet the most disturbing trend is this: In Germany, if one were to say &lt;strong&gt;&quot;I think all Indians are stupid, or superficial, or they have no culture,&quot; &lt;/strong&gt;everyone would be shocked and think you&#039;re a neo nazi or on the extreme right. Say the exact same thing about the US and it&#039;s suddenly not only acceptable but fashionable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grendel: I would say German opinion is pretty anti-US policy and anti-US in general and I have a lot of unfortunate personal experience to back this up. While I don&#8217;t think every single person dislikes Americans and American foreign policy, being an American, the first people want to tell you these days are what they think about the States: we are superficial, stupid, don&#8217;t know geography, etc. These are the most frequent ones you hear. Of course, all these people have never been to America, don&#8217;t study history, politics or sociology and have no clue what they&#8217;re talking about, yet the most disturbing trend is this: In Germany, if one were to say <strong>&#8220;I think all Indians are stupid, or superficial, or they have no culture,&#8221; </strong>everyone would be shocked and think you&#8217;re a neo nazi or on the extreme right. Say the exact same thing about the US and it&#8217;s suddenly not only acceptable but fashionable.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chief Wiggum</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/05/26/schroeder-out-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-6193</link>
		<dc:creator>Chief Wiggum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2005 20:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=674#comment-6193</guid>
		<description>From  Mark Steyn&#039;s article in The Spectator- 
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php?id=6168&amp;issue=2005-05-28  

&quot;The electors of North Rhine-Westphalia certainly understand the nature of the times in which they live. If it were just a matter of kicking Gerhard SchrÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶der&#039;s sorry ass around the room, I&#039;d be all in favour of last Sunday&#039;s election result. But, in fact, voters in the Ruhr were punishing his party for their temerity in proposing even a teensy-weensy, tentative, tepid reform of their arthritic welfare state. They may have ended four decades of SPD rule, but they did so in order to vote against change. The Christian Democrats and Liberal Democrats are merely passing beneficiaries of the electorate&#039;s determination to live in denial for as long as they can get away with it. It was a vote for the present tense, a vote to say to the moment linger awhile, another decade or three.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From  Mark Steyn&#8217;s article in The Spectator- <br />
<a href="http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php?id=6168&amp;issue=2005-05-28">http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php?id=6168&amp;issue=2005-05-28</a>  </p>

<p>&#8220;The electors of North Rhine-Westphalia certainly understand the nature of the times in which they live. If it were just a matter of kicking Gerhard Schr&Atilde;ƒ&AElig;’&Atilde;‚&Acirc;&para;der&#8217;s sorry ass around the room, I&#8217;d be all in favour of last Sunday&#8217;s election result. But, in fact, voters in the Ruhr were punishing his party for their temerity in proposing even a teensy-weensy, tentative, tepid reform of their arthritic welfare state. They may have ended four decades of <span class="caps">SPD </span>rule, but they did so in order to vote against change. The Christian Democrats and Liberal Democrats are merely passing beneficiaries of the electorate&#8217;s determination to live in denial for as long as they can get away with it. It was a vote for the present tense, a vote to say to the moment linger awhile, another decade or three.&#8221;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Grendel</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/05/26/schroeder-out-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-6192</link>
		<dc:creator>Grendel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 May 2005 17:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/?p=674#comment-6192</guid>
		<description>Welcome back online :-)
I had a little bit time on sunday and followed the elections pretty closely, if you&#039;re interested, take a &quot;look&quot;:http://grabic.blogspot.com/ Chancellor SchrÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶der didn&#039;t actually have an alternative after the outcome of the election in NRW.

The FDP is not actually a right / conservative party per se - while they tend to have more similarities with the CDU, they do form coalitions with the SPD as well (catchword Ampelkoalition), the &quot;Liberals&quot; tend towards the CDU since the early 80ies thoughs. Before that, they switched sides between CDU and SPD quite often.

&lt;i&gt;While German public opinion is not only anti-US,...&lt;/i&gt; 

So, let&#039;s differentiate generalizations a little bit. My impression is rather the public opinion is anti-US-government, but impressions are never representative. I agree polls were bad during the Iraq War, the Europeans have to work closer with the Americans thought some 31%, while 52% saw a neccessity to walk another path (politicly). Also, during the same period, 40% said that there&#039;s an Anti-American sentiment, while the same number of people said there&#039;s none. The reason for the first 40% were almost exclusively the Iraq War controversy. (source KAS, which has close ties to the CDU). Or take a look at this &quot;graph&quot;:http://www.kas.de/upload/bilder/faz/freundschaft.jpg If you&#039;re curious about what influenced German people&#039;s view on the US most, take a look &quot;here&quot;:http://www.kas.de/upload/bilder/faz/amerika_bild.jpg

&lt;i&gt;...a new government would help to begin changing that.&lt;/i&gt;

Which is probably true for the US (and modifications in their foreign policy) as well. ;-)

&lt;i&gt;While nobody should expect to see German troops in Iraq ever,...&lt;/i&gt;

One problem with the war was that it broke international law and was completely illegal, sending troops there without consent of the UNO would have been impossible (even if the government would have wanted to send them). 

...but I agree with you that the new government (and it&#039;s very, very likely that the CDU will take over in Germany, anything else would be a wonder for Chancellor SchrÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¶der) shouldn&#039;t reject Turkey full membership in the long run, geopolitically that&#039;s such a grave mistake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome back online :-)<br />
I had a little bit time on sunday and followed the elections pretty closely, if you&#8217;re interested, take a <a href="http://grabic.blogspot.com/">look</a> Chancellor Schr&Atilde;ƒ&AElig;’&Atilde;‚&Acirc;&para;der didn&#8217;t actually have an alternative after the outcome of the election in <span class="caps">NRW.</span></p>

<p>The <span class="caps">FDP </span>is not actually a right / conservative party per se &#8211; while they tend to have more similarities with the <span class="caps">CDU, </span>they do form coalitions with the <span class="caps">SPD </span>as well (catchword Ampelkoalition), the &#8220;Liberals&#8221; tend towards the <span class="caps">CDU </span>since the early 80ies thoughs. Before that, they switched sides between <span class="caps">CDU </span>and <span class="caps">SPD </span>quite often.</p>

<p><i>While German public opinion is not only anti-US,&#8230;</i> </p>

<p>So, let&#8217;s differentiate generalizations a little bit. My impression is rather the public opinion is anti-US-government, but impressions are never representative. I agree polls were bad during the Iraq War, the Europeans have to work closer with the Americans thought some 31%, while 52% saw a neccessity to walk another path (politicly). Also, during the same period, 40% said that there&#8217;s an Anti-American sentiment, while the same number of people said there&#8217;s none. The reason for the first 40% were almost exclusively the Iraq War controversy. (source <span class="caps">KAS, </span>which has close ties to the <span class="caps">CDU</span>). Or take a look at this <a href="http://www.kas.de/upload/bilder/faz/freundschaft.jpg">graph</a> If you&#8217;re curious about what influenced German people&#8217;s view on the US most, take a look <a href="http://www.kas.de/upload/bilder/faz/amerika_bild.jpg">here</a></p>

<p><i>&#8230;a new government would help to begin changing that.</i></p>

<p>Which is probably true for the US (and modifications in their foreign policy) as well. ;-)</p>

<p><i>While nobody should expect to see German troops in Iraq ever,&#8230;</i></p>

<p>One problem with the war was that it broke international law and was completely illegal, sending troops there without consent of the <span class="caps">UNO </span>would have been impossible (even if the government would have wanted to send them). </p>

<p>&#8230;but I agree with you that the new government (and it&#8217;s very, very likely that the <span class="caps">CDU </span>will take over in Germany, anything else would be a wonder for Chancellor Schr&Atilde;ƒ&AElig;’&Atilde;‚&Acirc;&para;der) shouldn&#8217;t reject Turkey full membership in the long run, geopolitically that&#8217;s such a grave mistake.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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