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	<title>Comments on: Europe&#8217;s Eastern&#160;Inheritance</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cominganarchy.com/2005/04/29/europes-eastern-inheritance/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/04/29/europes-eastern-inheritance/</link>
	<description>Speak Victorian, Think Pagan</description>
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		<title>By: ComingAnarchy.com  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Bad Day for Turkey</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/04/29/europes-eastern-inheritance/comment-page-1/#comment-8183</link>
		<dc:creator>ComingAnarchy.com  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Bad Day for Turkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2005 08:27:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2005/04/27/byzantium-returns-home/#comment-8183</guid>
		<description>[...] s, however I would argue Turkey doesn&#8217;t not share the same values, but rather shares many but not all of them. With Europe plunged into an identity cris [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] s, however I would argue Turkey doesn&#8217;t not share the same values, but rather shares many but not all of them. With Europe plunged into an identity cris [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chirol</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/04/29/europes-eastern-inheritance/comment-page-1/#comment-5100</link>
		<dc:creator>Chirol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 May 2005 16:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2005/04/27/byzantium-returns-home/#comment-5100</guid>
		<description>You need to understand that we&#039;re comparing them with the standards of the time. Back then there was no such thing as the Geneva Convetnions or human rights. For their time, they were tolerant but of course not as tolerant as the West is today. Don&#039;t project current standards back into the past. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You need to understand that we&#8217;re comparing them with the standards of the time. Back then there was no such thing as the Geneva Convetnions or human rights. For their time, they were tolerant but of course not as tolerant as the West is today. Don&#8217;t project current standards back into the past.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: madne0</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/04/29/europes-eastern-inheritance/comment-page-1/#comment-5061</link>
		<dc:creator>madne0</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 May 2005 12:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2005/04/27/byzantium-returns-home/#comment-5061</guid>
		<description>&quot;the Seljuk Turks and Arabs were very tolerant of minorities as well as other religions with Christians and Jews accorded legal protection and the freedom to worship despite being taxed at a higher rate&quot;

Wait a second, let&#039;s stop right here. Do a little search on google for &quot;dhimmi&quot; and lets see if you still stand by this paragraph.
Were muslims at the time more tolerant then Europeans? Yes. But that doesn&#039;t mean it was a paradise...Very far from it. In fact in occupied Iberia, there were several &quot;pogroms&quot; against Christians and Jews, in towns like Toledo, Valencia and Seville. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the Seljuk Turks and Arabs were very tolerant of minorities as well as other religions with Christians and Jews accorded legal protection and the freedom to worship despite being taxed at a higher rate&#8221;</p>

<p>Wait a second, let&#8217;s stop right here. Do a little search on google for &#8220;dhimmi&#8221; and lets see if you still stand by this paragraph.<br />
Were muslims at the time more tolerant then Europeans? Yes. But that doesn&#8217;t mean it was a paradise&#8230;Very far from it. In fact in occupied Iberia, there were several &#8220;pogroms&#8221; against Christians and Jews, in towns like Toledo, Valencia and Seville.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chirol</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/04/29/europes-eastern-inheritance/comment-page-1/#comment-5057</link>
		<dc:creator>Chirol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 May 2005 08:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2005/04/27/byzantium-returns-home/#comment-5057</guid>
		<description>Perhaps you&#039;d like to back up your statements with actual evidence before making them? </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps you&#8217;d like to back up your statements with actual evidence before making them?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: TTL</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/04/29/europes-eastern-inheritance/comment-page-1/#comment-5054</link>
		<dc:creator>TTL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 May 2005 04:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2005/04/27/byzantium-returns-home/#comment-5054</guid>
		<description>Wow, is Her Majesty&#039;s government really sending peopleto Turkey who leave not knowing the differece between the Seljuks and the Ottomans?  

As a Turk I am flabbergasted you would say Turkey had a stong democracy for 80 years. That is bunk. We had a military dictatorship for many decades until a few short years ago. This is not a contested or subjective point. 
Also you say the Arabs were &quot;very tolerant&quot; of minorities. That is simply not a fact at all. 

I am really suprised at how superficial your analysis is. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, is Her Majesty&#8217;s government really sending peopleto Turkey who leave not knowing the differece between the Seljuks and the Ottomans?  </p>

<p>As a Turk I am flabbergasted you would say Turkey had a stong democracy for 80 years. That is bunk. We had a military dictatorship for many decades until a few short years ago. This is not a contested or subjective point. <br />
Also you say the Arabs were &#8220;very tolerant&#8221; of minorities. That is simply not a fact at all. </p>

<p>I am really suprised at how superficial your analysis is.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Chirol</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/04/29/europes-eastern-inheritance/comment-page-1/#comment-4988</link>
		<dc:creator>Chirol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Apr 2005 17:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2005/04/27/byzantium-returns-home/#comment-4988</guid>
		<description>Ooh!. Excellent book recommendations. You&#039;re right, if you look at it from the perspective of the time, it was indeed Europe who was far behind the Mediteranean Empires (Rome, Byzantium) and only later reversed itself which is why I was writing from the current perspective. But alack and alas, you raise a very interesting point which has piqued my interest. I already see a thesis on the historical cycle of The Core/Gap (c)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooh!. Excellent book recommendations. You&#8217;re right, if you look at it from the perspective of the time, it was indeed Europe who was far behind the Mediteranean Empires (Rome, Byzantium) and only later reversed itself which is why I was writing from the current perspective. But alack and alas, you raise a very interesting point which has piqued my interest. I already see a thesis on the historical cycle of The Core/Gap &#169;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2005/04/29/europes-eastern-inheritance/comment-page-1/#comment-4920</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Apr 2005 13:28:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2005/04/27/byzantium-returns-home/#comment-4920</guid>
		<description>Great post!

I would strongly recommend the book &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486420116?v=glance&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mohammed and Charlemagne&lt;/a&gt;.&quot;  It argues that Western European culture became distinctive beacuse of a grinding, decades-long quarantine by the Arabs.  During this interdiction, Western Europe lost even trivial trade with the east and &quot;dropped out&quot; of the Mediterranean economy.  

In other words France, Italy, Germany became  the &quot;Gap&quot; which eventually formed a competing Core that smashed its rival.  (Britain, with no continuity to the Empire, just fell off the Barbarians&#039; New Map altogether). So the argument isn&#039;t that Turkey was disconnected from the West -- it was the West was disconnected from Turkey.

And yes, the same criticism could be made to keep Greece, Spain, or even Britain out of a new &lt;a href=&quot;http://tdaxp.blogspirit.com/archive/2005/03/27/carolingia_or_latinite.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Carolingia&lt;/a&gt;.  Fortunately no one listened to the frogophones.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://tdaxp.blogspirit.com/archive/2005/03/25/the_end_of_france_s_future.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;France&#039;s Europe worth creating&lt;/a&gt; is being destroyed step-by-step.  Jolly good, I say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post!</p>

<p>I would strongly recommend the book &#8220;<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0486420116?v=glance">Mohammed and Charlemagne</a>.&#8221;  It argues that Western European culture became distinctive beacuse of a grinding, decades-long quarantine by the Arabs.  During this interdiction, Western Europe lost even trivial trade with the east and &#8220;dropped out&#8221; of the Mediterranean economy.  </p>

<p>In other words France, Italy, Germany became  the &#8220;Gap&#8221; which eventually formed a competing Core that smashed its rival.  (Britain, with no continuity to the Empire, just fell off the Barbarians&#8217; New Map altogether). So the argument isn&#8217;t that Turkey was disconnected from the West &#8212; it was the West was disconnected from Turkey.</p>

<p>And yes, the same criticism could be made to keep Greece, Spain, or even Britain out of a new <a href="http://tdaxp.blogspirit.com/archive/2005/03/27/carolingia_or_latinite.html">Carolingia</a>.  Fortunately no one listened to the frogophones.</p>

<p><a href="http://tdaxp.blogspirit.com/archive/2005/03/25/the_end_of_france_s_future.html">France&#8217;s Europe worth creating</a> is being destroyed step-by-step.  Jolly good, I say.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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