Still, I do not think that repeated apologies are not the answer. Japan needs to set up a forum in which the victims and their families can express their grief and be heard. Even recently (last couple of years) there were Japanese officials who accused the “comfort women” of being “nothing more than paid prostitutes.” This was done to the face of a Korean woman telling about her experience as a forced sexual slave during the war. This is the same as raping her again.

The Japanese culture seems to repress that open communication and acceptance of responsibility. I think that many people see that as an unwillingness to accept full responsibility. Sure it may be discussed openly within the Japanese community. That is like saying sexual abuse is okay as long as it is “discussed openly within the family of origin.”Ã�? Uh that would be a resounding, NO. These wounds inflicted by Japan cannot possibly heal unless the atrocities are fully examined, admitted and acknowledged at a governmental and policy level so that the victims can be honored inasmuch as they were dishonored and devalued unto death and violation.

Germany has taken steps (i.e. laws instituted that state that anyone saying the holocaust did not happen can be jailed), to ensure that the past is not denied. Japan also needs to determine the truth, hear the victims and establish the same expectation of shame on those who would deny the truth and the past.

As for the younger generations not being responsible, that is simply not true. We are all as part of humanity responsible. Has this occurred before? Of course it has. Is it continuing in the world? Absolutely! With each time it occurs it does affect future generations. The impact is seven generations. That burden is what keeps it from happening again. Does that mean that every Japanese boy is a rapist and a murderer? Of course not! But it means that those acts of brutality are part of his spiritual heritage. The pain and shame associated with those acts will absolutely affect every Japanese child until this matter is resolved.

In the United States those who chose to engage in the brutality of slavery (which too involved the annihilation, brutality, rape, dehumanization of huge numbers of people) have affected even those of us whose parents did not engage in such things. African slavery affected the world. The ramifications still exist 200 years later. I remember the hostility I saw my black friends treated with even in the late 80’s early 90’s in the South. WWII was only 60 years ago! That is maybe two generations. The pain is still very, very real for many people. This would be especially so for the young women violently gang raped at 7 because someone’s commander decided she was not human. That is, if she was not bayoneted in the crotch until she died.

In the United States there are also the countless war crimes committed against the native Americans. Women were systematically raped, mutilated and whole villages of people, including children murdered. However, for some reason, we as a people seem to look at that as being in our “cultural infancy.”Ã�? Yet that too was a result of peoples of the world being culturally raised to dehumanize others. That too stemmed from a European “parent.”Ã�? Yet these acts of brutality were the inception of my nation. The United States is therefore midway through its seventh generation from the onset of the brutality. Yet we are STILL trying to overcome the “sins of our fathers.”Ã�? Japan and Germany were much older cultures. The older the “child”Ã�? the more responsibility we as humanity feel they must bear. Does it make the US less “Guilty?”Ã�? No, again, certainly it does not.

The US too went through a time of trivializing and dismissing the effects of the systematic barbarism and acts of dehumanization initiated by those elected to lead. But there are so many who are free to speak the truth here. Also, like German the United States has taken numerous steps to help equalize the peoples and heal the injustices. Japan, one of the richest economies in the world, has taken few if any steps in that direction. Doing so would certainly equate in the minds of many with “taking responsibility.”Ã�? That would heal a great deal of the trauma and bad feelings. Instead they put on a great showing that involves more ceremonies and facades. That and superficial, generalized expressions of “deep regret,”Ã�? will never, ever be enough to heal the real damage done.

To Mike,
See this page.
http://homepage3.nifty.com/kadzuwo/history/photonankin.htm
Note that they are various copies published in Japan from BOTH sides examining the incident. I am not the one who wants to whitewash the history. But if there are some exaggerations in neighbor’s claim, objecting it is the way normal people would react.

And your opinion is quite true! Many German women were raped in Berlin by Soviet, but Russia never express their remorse. The world at that time went crazy. And it’s true that Japan also invaded asian countries as Koizumi said at Asian-African summit . Now a little peace have been achieved, but the problem is that some country is still expanding its territory, invading Philippines sea for example. Funny thing is the country is pointing many Nukes at Japan while pretending a heaviest sufferer. You guys have to consider which country is the potential threat in the near future to the world. CCP ought to cease the fire and stop threatening Taiwan and East Turkistan before claiming anything.

Do we really want Japan to teach it’s children that their country is bad?
What good will that do? Your probably going to say, ” To Not repeat history.” Then we’ll have to change all the history books in all the countries. Instead of teaching history, we can just list all the atrocities. (In this day and age, China is still adding to their list at a much higher rate than Japan IMO. So all this self righteous indignation from CHINA takes focus away from that fact. It’s a diversionary tactic from China.)
Japan is a great country, with low crime, and freedom. They haven’t threatened anyone in over 60 years, and most of those people that did, are dead. China on the other hand, is building up their military for a future hell. (if they win)

You can beat the Japanese people over the head only so much over this. Then they’ll just get tired of apologizing, and become numb. I know some Germans that feel the same way about their countries past.

I thnk we need to give the Japanese people a break, I wish more countries were like them.

Then, a true thing might be understood.

http://jpn.dyndns.ws/~nanking/index2.html

Funnily enough, many japanese history textbooks describe all the attacks to neighboring countries as “invasion” while attacks from those countries as “expeditions”. I’d like to emphasize that many expressions in existing textbooks have been already changed by the coutinuous pressure from China and Korea. This textbook is the only one facing up to them. This is why those countries plan undermining it.

About Nanjing massacre, a lot of arguments have been made since 80’s in Japan. I have learned that Chinese communists have increased the number of victims year by year. It used to be 50,000 according to chinese government, but now it’s 300,0000 as you can see in the memorial in Nanjing. Plus, some of the pictures in the building turned out to be made up. In one of the pictures, Japanese soldiers wear summer uniforms. That massacre in fact occured in winter. It’s hilarious. A copy uncovering those things will be published in English, so look forward to it. Picture propaganta is the frequent way they use. Japan shall not run away until China show up in the court and fight over the exaggerated incident.

I came from a thread called
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http://society3.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/giin/1113662718/l50
But, seems like the thread #108 is almost over.

Since this is a long-run thread, there is a summary site for it.
http://yasz.hp.infoseek.co.jp/

I feel that I’ve finally found a strong supporter outside of Japan!
We have avid discussions about our history and politics within our country, but I felt that those discussions hardly reach outside, which is mainly because of lack of our appeal.
But I found you wrote exactly what I (and probably the people on the thread) wanted to say.

I will visit here from now on.

Re: Rape of Nanjing. Yes, it was a massacre. Their superiors were tried in war crimes court, some were imprisoned and some were executed. They apologize and admit that about 80,000-120,000 civilians were killed. But the book the Rape of Nanjing is an appalling anti-Japanese diatribe full of falsifications that believes every rumor, every story, throws facts to the wind to prove her point that the Japanese were animals, and were ultimately a source of Chang’s own self-loathing psychosis that drove her to suicide, despite being married, with children and a respected professional in her field. This article by David Kennedy from the Atlantic Monthly and written before Chang’s death, reveals the subtle inaccurates in her book and expose her for what she is/was.

Japan is whitewashing. Read the Rape of NanKing. They were having head chopping contests, rapping women, plundering, and taking pictures of it because they didn’t think they were doing anything wrong. Their superiors encouraged it.

The Chineese have the right to be angered about these Textbooks. How would we like it if the the Japaneese textbooks whitewashed the Pearl Harbour, or Bridge over Rive Quai (Sp?) stories.

I can also see how people are sick and tired of apologizing. Some people like to use the past
to beat you over the head . They say they accept your apology, but if they can use your past deed
as leverage they will. I believe that these whitewashed Japaneese books give China a great argument/leverage to block their seat on the UN Security Councel. To me the revisionist textbooks are stupid because Japaneese people live in a free society, and have access to the internet and other forms of research. So if the goal was brainwashing they failed.

If you think about it, every country that exists, exists by the defeat of somebody or some group that used to live there. The most stable ones were the ones that vanquished their enemies, otherwise theri enemies would regroup..

We need to learn from the past, so as to not repeat it, but you need to look at the reality of today.
In todays world, China is a huge threat to world peace. Japan is not. Japan has human rights. China does not. The Chineese have bigger problems than Japans textbooks. (They live in a totalitarian state.)

Book recommendation
Ways that are dark; the truth about China by Ralph Townsend

Within http://www.2ch.net, there appears to be multiple postings of your website url.
The one I came across was:

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http://society3.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/korea/1112957510/200

By the way, it was refreshing to see someone in US shed light on this issue.

ttp://www.2ch.net/ (as you know, please add “h” to very front)

I hope this is what you asked for:)
Thanks!

Up to and until the 70s, the crockery in the dining room showed a little border of lord Jeff chasing indians all around the plate. Until one day, when people just started smashing them in the dining room.

Currently Japanese government claims, look, speech freedom needs to be protected. In that case, why do you need review on textbook anyway?

The same with shrine visit. Yes, the prime minister can visit. So, why did he have to annouce to visit in official capacity, unless he really want to piss off other people. Well, those people are pissed. He should be really happy now.

You’re right, apologies don’t mean jackshit in Korea and China. Not when Japan’s top dogs insist that they go on proudly INVALIDATING them with some of their action.

If japan can simply live with itself and no one else and doesn’t influence anyone else in any way whatsoever, i wouldn’t give a flying fuck as to what they do amongst themselves, wehther that’s going to visit yaskuni or engaging in tentacle sex.

But no, we and they have to live with each other, which is why its a damn aweful misfortune for the rest of East Asia.

If you’re grandparents’ generation weren’t raped, mutilated then murdered, used for live bayonet practice, massacred en masse by the Japanese, don’t you dare discount my grief and outrage at their suffering. The Japanese, like the Germans, had a master race mentality that enabled them to slaughter women and children like animals while taking pleasure in their cruelty. Yet the world has convieniently forgotten about all that. Why let their memories haunt the economic good times?

If you have read Iris Chang’s “The Rape of Nanking” or saw Zhang Yimou’s “Red Sorgum” the harrowing deaths of those Chinese will stay with you forever. It’s not that I don’t want to forgive the Japanese people. But it’s hard to forgive with an open heart when the Japanese are trying to sweep away and sanitize their history at every turn. Official apologies are nice. But Koizumi visiting the shrine honoring those who killed and tortured as national heros speaks volumes.

(For those who argue “But the Chinese are just as bad in Tibet, Mongolia etc…” Would you defend haulocaust deniers just because “but the Israelis are just as bad to the Palestinians?”. Yes, it is a distasteful fact of life that every people can be victims and oppressors. That everybody contains within him the possibility to be good and to be evil. China should allow Tibet independence and apologize for oppressing the Tibetan people. Japan should face up to it’s bestial wartime behavior. Those things are not mutually exclusive.)

Give me one specific instance of U.S. forces ever passing out contaminated items to native americans. You are confusing a sorry episode from Pontiac’s War (committed by a Brit) with the general conduct of the later wars against the plains tribes, which does not have a single instance of germ warfare.

By the way, if you ever lived in the Mountain West, or the Southwest, you would find native americans far more visible. Within the eastern U.S.. the largest number of native americans live in North Carolina, with Maine running second, and I have lived in both. And in the case of some groups (i.e., the Navajo), there are far larger today than in the 19th Century.

Ah, reference the Congo’s 10 million exterminated. That comes from a single source, Adam Hochschild’s “King Leopold’s Ghost”. I did some very superficial study of the Congo/Zaire in the 1970s and 80s, but read more than a single book, and I agree with Hochschild’s critics that his “10 million” figure would be very hard to document.

Otherwise, I agree with much of your arguments regarding Japan. But then, Japan bashing in this part of the world often arises from issues other than Japan. The ire of the masses must have a safety valve, and Japan in convenient (if not totally undeserving).

Just ignoring the wholesale acceptance of the “unique” ideology, this post is delusional. China and Korea may indeed want Japan not to be prosperous, but nothing they have ever done has ever succeeded in holding back Japan in any way. China and Korea are not holding Japan, as a liberal democratic and prosperous country, back, and it’s paranoid and evidence of a persecution complex to even maintain that they have ever succeeded in doing so.

FWIW, I really like Japan as the model of a prosperous and advanced Asian country, and I would like to see it play more of a role as a leader and representative on behalf of Asia. Japan, however, continuously acts against its own interests in doing so. People have maintained that Korea and China should forgive and forget, but really, the Japanese aren’t doing much forgetting themselves. Why visit Yasukuni Jinja to memorialize a war that Japan lost 50 years ago, and why should an apology, decades later, be any more controversial than the very overdue American compensation of the victims of the Japanese internment campaign in World War II? Why does Yasukuni Jinja even need to exist at all, anymore, and really how much of the Japanese public even cares enough to justify Koizumi’s PR disastrous visits there? Why insist on provoking neighboring Asian countries, with whom valuable economic relations are being maintained with the perennial textbook controversy? Why not make some trivial adjustments in textbooks, some trivial payments, and be done with the issue for good?

Japan is an advanced country in Asia, and already plays an important role as the region’s financial and economic hub. As a prosperous and mature democracy, unlike china, Japan can potentially act as a representative for democratic Asia among the advanced nations. Every time it almost gets there, however, it acts against its own interests by absolutely refusing to budge on a few, really trivial, issues.

Really, I’m often baffled by foreigners from western countries in Japan. It’s always either “the Japanese are racist, and I’m persecuted,” or the reverse, a need to defend even the most reactionary aspects of Japanese society.

the original post by curzon seems slightly skewered in that he says basically because other colonial powers did things that were worse than japan and didn’t apologize, japan shouldn’t have to either. well, different cultures are going to handle affronts differently and thus should not be compared to each other. so yes, japan is different from germany but just because the congolese didn’t demand numerous apologies from the belgiums doesn’t mean the chinese can’t demand it from the japanese.

i say air out the dirty laundry and then get on with life.