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	<title>Comments on: Nuke&#160;Pyongyang</title>
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	<description>Speak Victorian, Think Pagan</description>
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		<title>By: ComingAnarchy.com  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Nuke Pyongyang, Reloaded</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-5265</link>
		<dc:creator>ComingAnarchy.com  &#187; Blog Archive   &#187; Nuke Pyongyang, Reloaded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2005 14:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/#comment-5265</guid>
		<description>[...] ollosus at Rhodes, EAT YOUR HEART OUT!			 		 		 	 	Related 		 		 			JFK ReloadedThe RyugongNuke PyongyangIran&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ollosus at Rhodes, <span class="caps">EAT YOUR HEART OUT</span>!			 		 		 	 	Related 		 		 			<span class="caps">JFK</span> ReloadedThe RyugongNuke PyongyangIran&#8217;s [...]</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-228</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2004 16:36:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/#comment-228</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s exactly what China has asked for.  China will reduce/eliminate their backing of NK _only_ if the US stops supporting Taiwan.  Taiwan definately has a special place in my heart, it&#039;s a democratic free state.  The Republic of China is more about the people than the People&#039;s Republic of China.  Taiwan is like China, only without the human rights abuses, lack of rule of law, lack of freedom of religion, press, etc.  

Lot&#039;s of people advocate the reunification of China.  Which invariably means that Taiwan just give up and be absorbed into the PRC.  I think things should remain as they are:  two sovreign nations.  Besides, I doubt a &quot;Chinese Reunification&quot; would be realistic anytime this side of 2050.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s exactly what China has asked for.  China will reduce/eliminate their backing of NK <em>only</em> if the US stops supporting Taiwan.  Taiwan definately has a special place in my heart, it&#8217;s a democratic free state.  The Republic of China is more about the people than the People&#8217;s Republic of China.  Taiwan is like China, only without the human rights abuses, lack of rule of law, lack of freedom of religion, press, etc.  </p>

<p>Lot&#8217;s of people advocate the reunification of China.  Which invariably means that Taiwan just give up and be absorbed into the <span class="caps">PRC. </span> I think things should remain as they are:  two sovreign nations.  Besides, I doubt a &#8220;Chinese Reunification&#8221; would be realistic anytime this side of 2050.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Adamu</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Adamu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2004 23:08:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/#comment-225</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t believe I&#039;m advocating war myself, although it looks like the North has (predictably) backed down from its &quot;act of war&quot; posturing after Japan&#039;s threat of sanctions. Their explanation for why they screwed up the Yokota thing is at least plausible if completely laughable. 

To be honest, I was just mad about the Yokota incident and hoped that would be the straw that broke the camel&#039;s back. I&#039;m still kind of ambivalent about the whole thing. 

I liked the thing on the Marmot like a month ago where some guy was saying instead of placating SK we need to go to *China* and see what they require in concessions to stop supporting the North. Of course that would probably be something along the lines of &quot;stop supporting Taiwan&quot; but Taiwan holds no special place in my heart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t believe I&#8217;m advocating war myself, although it looks like the North has (predictably) backed down from its &#8220;act of war&#8221; posturing after Japan&#8217;s threat of sanctions. Their explanation for why they screwed up the Yokota thing is at least plausible if completely laughable. </p>

<p>To be honest, I was just mad about the Yokota incident and hoped that would be the straw that broke the camel&#8217;s back. I&#8217;m still kind of ambivalent about the whole thing. </p>

<p>I liked the thing on the Marmot like a month ago where some guy was saying instead of placating SK we need to go to <strong>China</strong> and see what they require in concessions to stop supporting the North. Of course that would probably be something along the lines of &#8220;stop supporting Taiwan&#8221; but Taiwan holds no special place in my heart.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-223</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2004 19:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/#comment-223</guid>
		<description>My knowledge of geopolitics stems from interest in the military and economic side of things, so hopefully my $0.02 will be worth something :)  

While I commend you for addressing the situation and at least suggesting a plan of action or solution to the problem with the DPRK, I have trouble in advocating _preemptive_ use of nuclear weapons.  I agree with you in the sense that war with NK is inevitable, but perhaps it can be done so quickly and effectively so as to reduce friendly and civilian casualties.  

North Korea (unlike Iraq) is a type of enemy that our military was designed to face due to the Cold War.  Likewise, war with NK would be a type of war in which our military would excel.  In Iraq, we face an unconventional enemy and general insugency, something our military wasn&#039;t really &#039;destined&#039; to experience.  There is something to be said about nuclear weapons, and I favor their existence primarily as a deterrent, and secondly as a devastatingly powerful retaliatory weapon.  I agree with Adamu that the use of a nuclear weapon (even a &quot;small&quot; one) carries such a psychological impact that the US would lose moral authority.  The other problem is that there are far &quot;too many targets&quot;:http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/target.htm that would need to be taken out simultaneously in the first strike to ensure that an extremely pissed off KJI (or loyalist General) wouldn&#039;t have a nuclear strike capability himself.  

To avail these dilemmas, I propose that any first-strike taken against NK be made with a combination of Air-Force delivered smart (yet conventional) munitions and special ops units on the ground.  The former would likely be F-117s, B-2s, or B-1s (all of which are stealth aircraft of some degree) flying from Guam or Okinawa and deliever their &quot;smart ordinances&quot;:http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/smart.htm to the (relatively) weaker nuclear sites and command centers.  Special Operations (SOCOM, Delta Force, etc.) could be inserted via a &quot;HALO&quot;:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAHO jump or the like to perform demolition to the more heavily armored missle sites in which even a &quot;bunker buster&quot; bomb would be useless.  They could also be covered and deployed by Marine helicopters based from the Navy&#039;s LHD warships (built by the naval shipyard my father works at!).  Meanwhile, the entire elite ground force would be covered by F-14s and F-18s delievering HARM anti-radar missles to the SAM sites and then destroying the artillery threatening Seoul.  The entire operation could realistically happen in a matter of a few hours, rendering the DPRK unable to threaten anybody outside of theater.  A conventional war could then ensue &quot;safely&quot;.  I&#039;ll let you, Curzon - more of a political expert than I - to worry about fueling a revolution or organized dissent inside NK, as well as the geopolitical ramifications of the US starting another war.

Again, actual nuclear war is too terrible to imagine.  The best policy would be to first disable the enemy&#039;s nuclear capability, especially considering that Kim Jong Il doesn&#039;t exactly strike me as a rational (or mentally stable) fellow.  And that should be done without resorting to nuclear weapons, conventionals can do the job with much less civilian loss of life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My knowledge of geopolitics stems from interest in the military and economic side of things, so hopefully my $0.02 will be worth something :)  </p>

<p>While I commend you for addressing the situation and at least suggesting a plan of action or solution to the problem with the <span class="caps">DPRK,</span> I have trouble in advocating <em>preemptive</em> use of nuclear weapons.  I agree with you in the sense that war with NK is inevitable, but perhaps it can be done so quickly and effectively so as to reduce friendly and civilian casualties.  </p>

<p>North Korea (unlike Iraq) is a type of enemy that our military was designed to face due to the Cold War.  Likewise, war with NK would be a type of war in which our military would excel.  In Iraq, we face an unconventional enemy and general insugency, something our military wasn&#8217;t really &#8216;destined&#8217; to experience.  There is something to be said about nuclear weapons, and I favor their existence primarily as a deterrent, and secondly as a devastatingly powerful retaliatory weapon.  I agree with Adamu that the use of a nuclear weapon (even a &#8220;small&#8221; one) carries such a psychological impact that the US would lose moral authority.  The other problem is that there are far <a href="http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/dprk/target.htm">too many targets</a> that would need to be taken out simultaneously in the first strike to ensure that an extremely pissed off <span class="caps">KJI </span>(or loyalist General) wouldn&#8217;t have a nuclear strike capability himself.  </p>

<p>To avail these dilemmas, I propose that any first-strike taken against NK be made with a combination of Air-Force delivered smart (yet conventional) munitions and special ops units on the ground.  The former would likely be F-117s, B-2s, or B-1s (all of which are stealth aircraft of some degree) flying from Guam or Okinawa and deliever their <a href="http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/smart.htm">smart ordinances</a> to the (relatively) weaker nuclear sites and command centers.  Special Operations (SOCOM, Delta Force, etc.) could be inserted via a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAHO"><span class="caps">HALO</span></a> jump or the like to perform demolition to the more heavily armored missle sites in which even a &#8220;bunker buster&#8221; bomb would be useless.  They could also be covered and deployed by Marine helicopters based from the Navy&#8217;s <span class="caps">LHD </span>warships (built by the naval shipyard my father works at!).  Meanwhile, the entire elite ground force would be covered by F-14s and F-18s delievering <span class="caps">HARM </span>anti-radar missles to the <span class="caps">SAM </span>sites and then destroying the artillery threatening Seoul.  The entire operation could realistically happen in a matter of a few hours, rendering the <span class="caps">DPRK </span>unable to threaten anybody outside of theater.  A conventional war could then ensue &#8220;safely&#8221;.  I&#8217;ll let you, Curzon &#8211; more of a political expert than I &#8211; to worry about fueling a revolution or organized dissent inside <span class="caps">NK, </span>as well as the geopolitical ramifications of the US starting another war.</p>

<p>Again, actual nuclear war is too terrible to imagine.  The best policy would be to first disable the enemy&#8217;s nuclear capability, especially considering that Kim Jong Il doesn&#8217;t exactly strike me as a rational (or mentally stable) fellow.  And that should be done without resorting to nuclear weapons, conventionals can do the job with much less civilian loss of life.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Saru</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-220</link>
		<dc:creator>Saru</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2004 14:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/#comment-220</guid>
		<description>I still think you&#039;re both insane for numerous reasons outlined in detail in previous conversations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still think you&#8217;re both insane for numerous reasons outlined in detail in previous conversations.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Adamu</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-217</link>
		<dc:creator>Adamu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Dec 2004 20:28:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/#comment-217</guid>
		<description>I have lost patience with North Korea and wouldn&#039;t hold it against Bush for going in and taking care of things. So yeah, I&#039;d say I&#039;m pretty serious about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have lost patience with North Korea and wouldn&#8217;t hold it against Bush for going in and taking care of things. So yeah, I&#8217;d say I&#8217;m pretty serious about it.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Curzon</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-215</link>
		<dc:creator>Curzon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Dec 2004 06:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/#comment-215</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m totally confused -- are you serious or sarcastic?  (Either way, clarify your sincerity or your irony!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m totally confused &#8212; are you serious or sarcastic?  (Either way, clarify your sincerity or your irony!)</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Adamu</title>
		<link>http://cominganarchy.com/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/comment-page-1/#comment-211</link>
		<dc:creator>Adamu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2004 23:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.cominganarchy.com/archives/2004/12/17/nuke-pyongyang/#comment-211</guid>
		<description>I couldn&#039;t disagree more. Nuking NK would create nuclear fallout, cost unnecessary lives, destroy any remaining moral authority the US had, make the land unusable for years, destroy our relationships with Japan and Korea, and in general be a PR disaster. That said, the time to reunite the Korean Peninsula is AT HAND! NK stopped being cute like 3 months ago, and this Yokota thing has made me lose all patience with them. Right now the Japanese government would not be hard to convince, but the SKers are on drugs or something. We need to seize on the first plausible excuse (to use afterward of course) and proceed with the plan you outlined. 

Maybe then Korea can replace their anti-Japanese national holidays with a huge Korean Unification festival which would, of course, include the North Korean Arirang festival, complete with all 100,000 dancers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I couldn&#8217;t disagree more. Nuking NK would create nuclear fallout, cost unnecessary lives, destroy any remaining moral authority the US had, make the land unusable for years, destroy our relationships with Japan and Korea, and in general be a PR disaster. That said, the time to reunite the Korean Peninsula is AT <span class="caps">HAND</span>! NK stopped being cute like 3 months ago, and this Yokota thing has made me lose all patience with them. Right now the Japanese government would not be hard to convince, but the SKers are on drugs or something. We need to seize on the first plausible excuse (to use afterward of course) and proceed with the plan you outlined. </p>

<p>Maybe then Korea can replace their anti-Japanese national holidays with a huge Korean Unification festival which would, of course, include the North Korean Arirang festival, complete with all 100,000 dancers.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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