My fellow contributor at cominganarchy.com just mentioned the Armenian Genocide. But the question few people in America ask is, was it a genocide?
On April 24, 1915, the Ottoman authorities arrested several hundred prominent Armenians in Istanbul. An uprising spread across the empire in which an estimated 1.5 million Armenians were slaughtered between 1915 and 1923. The Armenians living across what was left of the Ottoman Empire were deported to the eastern border with Russia. A thousand years ago Armenia controlled up to a third of Anatolia from the Caucasus to the Mediterranean to Syria. Under Turkish rule they lived across the Empire. By the 1920s they were all concentrated in what is today the modern-day state of Armenia. Today the Turks call it “a grim story of serious inter-communal conflict, perpetrated by both Christian and Muslim irregular forces, complicated by disease, famine, and many other of war’s privations.” In other words, they say it wasn’t a genocide but a rebellion or an uprising.
This isn’t an easy topic — but I tend to agree. The Armenian Genocide could be called the Armenian Uprising. Nationalism tore apart the Ottoman Empire at the end of the 19th century. The Armenians were the last of the ethnic groups to revolt, after the Greeks, Kurds, Bulgars, Romanians, and Arabs. The Turks had experience at fighting revolts, and you had industrialization to help them kill more efficiently, as more forces could be moved quickly across large spances of land, plus you had tanks and planes.
Was it genocide? Or a series of wartime deaths? This argument is silly. Today Armenia is an isolated state mired in poverty. They need to move out of the past and concentrate on their current problems. For more information, see Wikipedia or this article in Slate.com.
UPDATE: Younghusband has indeed posted a long rebuttal in the comments section: check it out.
So are we arguing what exactly constitutes a genocide? I think the systematic recruitment and slaughtering (there are apparently internal records to prove this) plus the deportation/slaughter definitely constitutes a genocide because it was based simply on RACE. There are all kinds of ethnic groups in Anatolia as you pointed out, but the Turks mistrusted the Armenians (due to deep hatreds related to money-handling etc, much like the European Jews), considered them a security risk, and SYSTEMATICALLY went about fixing the problem.
The Armenians were Ottoman citizens, and deserved protection. The Turks decided that the key Turkish security was inside the border, instead of at the border.
This quote is particularly revealing:
Granted the Armenians have some serious contemporary problems, but I think the issue of the Genocide is justifiably important for 2 reasons: 1) it is a HUGE open question in relatively memorable history, which takes attention away from many other concerns that maybe should have more immediate priority, and 2) like the Slate article mentioned REPARATIONS. This could solve a lot of current Armenian problems, especially considering most of Armenia is supported by expat remittances. (Remember that more than half of Armenians live OUTSIDE of Armenia) In fact, I think that Turkey could use reparations as a lever to bring an end to the Nagorno-Karabakh war.
Anyways, telling them to forget about it and move on doesn’t help anything. In fact, it makes it worse because that is what people have been doing for almost a hundred years.
I think the notion that Reparations will help anyone is a red-herring, and a VERY BAD IDEA. Who would get the money? Reparations to slaves of the Nazis, and Comfort Women of the Japanese, have some benefit when they go to the wronged parties themselves, but mainly as a verification and vindication that they were indeed badly wronged. I cannot imagine the sums of money having any broad societal impact.
We can see that oil-rich countries get vast amounts of cash that rarely help many of the population. It will be interesting to see if Chad can be an exception….
Taking money from today’s population in Turkey, which has many demands on it already, and no close contact with the Armenian slaughter, and giving it to a goverment of at best grandchildren of earlier victims, is just plain silly.
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Kocharian: Jews Want a Monopoly on Genocide
Source:Jan SOYKOK, JTW
Jan SOYKOK, ISTANBUL (JTW) – Armenian President Robert Kocharian said “Jews want a Jewish monopoly on genocide. I mean Jews would not accept other peoples’ genocides. But they will be changed, or they will have nothing to change”Â?, Husnu Mahalli from Aksam daily paper reported.
Mahalli, who works for Aksam newspaper in Istanbul, said that Kocharian gave an interview to him in 1998 and confessed his true ideas about the Jews. According to Mahalli’s column, Kocharian accuses the Jewish people of not respecting other “Ëœnations’ tragedies’.
Moreover Kocharian said in his interview with Husnu Mahalli that Armenia would make anything possible to force Turkey to shift its Armenian policies in 2005. Kocharian further continued in the interview:
“In 90th anniversary of the genocide we will apply steady force on Turkey in European and American platforms in order to force Turkey to shift its policies. But Turkey will give up in 100th anniversary (2015). I mean Turkey will have to accept genocide and she will pay compensation.”Â?
Kocharian also implied that the Jews in the United States cannot prevent Armenians.
“ËœKOCHARIAN DREAMS’
Turkish Armenian experts on the other hand found Kocharian “Ëœextremely optimistic’: Dr. Nilgun Gulcan from ISRO for instance argues that “Armenians accuse the Jews for anything they cannot success”Â?. Dr. Gulcan further continued:
“A typical Jewish-sceptic Armenian approach. Armenian President Kocharian accuses the Jewish people. He says Jews want a monopoly on genocide issue. He implies that Jewish people intentionally rejects the Armenian genocide allegations. However he never question the Armenian policies. Armenians just accuse”¦ to Jewish or to Turkish people for their own failures”¦ Mr. Kocharian is extremely optimistic. He as a president cannot solve the economic problems of Armenia and rely on the imagined compensation which would come from Turkey.”Â?
Similarly Kazim Turkcan also criticized President Kocharian: “He (Mr. Kocharian) confesses that the Armenian Government spent enormous energy for anti-Turkish lobbying in Europe and in the United States. If Armenia continues to undermine Turkey’s national interests in these countries, Armenia should not expect any co-operation with Turkey. Yerevan criticized Turkey in bordergate issue. However Armenia’s President undermines Turkey’s interests in Europe and in the US.”Â? Turkcan added.
ISRAEL: “ËœNO PARALLELS BETWEEN HOLOCAUST AND THE 1915 EVENTS’
In recent years the Israeli government’s attitude vis-à-vis Turkish and Armenians has changed and Israel has not hesitate to declare its opposition to the Armenian claims. The Nobel Peace Prize Awarded former Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres for example declared that the Armenian political claims are meaningless. Peres in his speech in April 2003 left no doubt about that Israel has a similar view with the Turkish government on the question of the 1915 Relocation, saying that the fate of the Armenians in Anatolia was a “Ëœtragedy’, not a genocide. Peres had further continued:
“ËœArmenian allegations are meaningless”¦ We reject attempts to create a similarity between the Holocaust and the Armenian allegations. Nothing similar to the Holocaust occurred. It is a tragedy what the Armenians went through but not a genocide… Israel should not determine a historical or philosophical position on the Armenian issue. If we have to determine a position, it should be done with great care not to distort the historical realities.’
Apart from the Armenian claims issue Peres underscored the good relations between the Turkish and Jewish peoples, and made special note of the esteem in which Turkey is held by the Jewish lobby in Washington. Peres having claimed “ËœTurkey and Israel are in the same boat and Turkey-Israel relations are extremely good, said that he hoped the lobby would continue to lend support to Turkish causes. Peres’ statement caused great reaction among the radical Armenians; The Asbarez, a periodical of a radical Armenian political group, labeled Peres and Israel as “Ëœdenier’. Haig Boyodjian from the same periodical protested Israel and further said “Ëœwe Armenians in turn reject Israeli efforts at denying the reality of another genocide preceding theirs’.
MEMORIAL DAY: NO WAY TO THE ARMENIAN ALLEGATIONS
In addition to Shimon Peres’ statements the First Holocaust Memorial Day in Britain also provided clear proofs for the Jewish stance on the issue of the Armenian attempts to create parallel between the 1915 events and the Jewish Holocaust. When the British government with the BBC organised a Holocaust Memorial Day, the Armenian lobbying groups saw this as an opportunity although the focus of the day was solely the events in the World War Two. In spite of this the Armenian political groups accused the British government and claimed that the British simply ignored the Armenians. Nevertheless they applied to join the day as the “Ëœvictims’ of, as they called, a genocide. As expected the Armenian application was turned down by the British Government and the BBC and the Armenian groups were informed by the Home Office that the memorial ceremonies were designed for the Holocaust only. The representatives of the British Government frequently declared that the United Kingdom had never recognized the 1915 events as “Ëœgenocide’ and its stance regarding the Armenian allegations remained the same. Not only the British but also the Jewish people and Israel were unhappy with the Armenian political attempts. As seen Shimon Peres had clearly refused the Armenian claims while the British Jewish never supported the Armenian attempt. Turkey’s Jewish community also declared that inclusion of other “Ëœso-called genocides’ in the commemoration of Holocaust Memorial Day in Britain would be disrespectful to the Jews killed by the Nazis.
As the examples demonstrated that Israel has made it clear its position about the Armenian allegations and officially and clearly rejected all Armenian attempts to present the 1915 Relocation as “Ëœgenocide’. Another vivid example came from the Israeli Ambassador to Armenian Rivka Kohen. Mrs. Kohen on 7 February 2002, during a press conference in Yerevan said that the Israeli people and government are sorry for the both sides of the tragic events of 1915, but she refused to draw any parallels between the 1915 events and Holocaust. Rivka Kohen implied that the 1915 events couldn’t be considered as “Ëœgenocide’ because the mass killings in these events were not planned and the Turkish Government had no intention to destroy a nation or a group of people. As a well-known fact many people from the Armenian and Muslim groups had lost their life in these events. She further argued that Holocaust is unique:
“ËœHolocaust was a unique phenomenon, since it had always planned and aimed to destroy the whole nation. At this stage nothing should be compared with Holocaust.’
The Armenian reaction to Kohen’s comment was bitter: First, Dzyunik Agadzhanyian from the Armenian Foreign Ministry said Kohen’s statements were “unusual and sad”Â?:
“ËœIt is sad that the political leadership of the nation which went through the Holocaust continues to adhere to such position, based on unclear political reasons’.[101]
Then, the Armenian Aryan party urged persona non grata status for the Israeli Ambassador. For the Aryan party, Kohen’s “pro-Turkish”Â? statement was “cynical and interference in Armenia’s internal affairs”Â?. Aryan’s press release declared Israel as “genocide denier”Â? and claimed that Israel helps Turkey and Azerbaijan against Armenia. After an anti-Israel campaign, Armenian Foreign Ministry had to change its “Ëœmoderate’ position. On 15 February Dzyunik Agadzhanyan the spokeswoman for the Armenian Foreign Ministry gave an interview to the Armenian press and criticized Kohen and Israeli policy regarding the Armenian issue. Agadzhanyan told the reporter that the Armenian Foreign Minister strongly denounced Israeli Ambassador’s remarks:
“ËœForeign Minister Vardan Oskanyan has unequivocally negatively assessed Ambassador Kohen’s statement. Earlier the Armenian Foreign Ministry also negatively assessed a similar statement by Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres. This time the Armenian foreign minister has again taken serious steps to express his dissatisfaction”¦ It is really regrettable that Israeli diplomacy sticks to such a position, which stems from certain political considerations”¦’
After the statement Armenian Foreign Ministry issued a note of protest to Israel over the Ambassador’s remarks and the Ministry cancelled Oskanian’s official visit to Israel which had been planned before the Ambassador crisis as Ms. Ashjain said “Ëœat this moment no visit on the level of foreign affairs minister is planned to Israel, and no delegation is expected from Israel at this moment in Armenia.’ As expected Israel did not accept the accusations and Israeli Foreign Ministry released its answer to the Armenian note of protest:
“ËœAs Jews and Israelis we are sorry for the killings and tragedies that took place particularly in 1915-16. We understand the outbursts of the feelings of both sides (Turks and Armenians) know that there were many victims and realize the suffering of Armenia nation. The examination of this theme requires discussions with participation of large communities of society and dialogue of historians, which will be based on facts and proofs.’
As anticipated this reply did not satisfy the Armenians and the Armenian press blamed Israel and accused the Israeli Foreign Ministry of “Ëœplaying dirty political games’ In conclusion, Israel’s attitude regarding the Armenian allegation has deeply affected the relation between both states; on the one hand Armenia has insisted on its allegations and accused Turkey and Israel for their positions, on the other it has criticized Turks and Israelis for not to develop good relations with Armenia.
And now Armenian President Kocharian accused the Jews of maintaining a monopoly on genocide issues.
JTW
24 September 2005
Jews Want a Monopoly on Genocide
We have to consider wht is a genocide, it exists in fact when its objectve of state, if Nazi objectve was totally jews extermin.. and Turkey object was totally Armenias extermin.. both is a genocide.
“Oh Turkish and Jewish justice, let me spit at your forehead”Â?
“Why does Israel not recognize the Armenian genocide?
The Turkish-Israeli Alliance and Genocide Denial.
It is a sad and painful truth that, as a consequence of the expanding alliance between Turkey and Israel, the Jewish American lobby is now also a Turkish lobby, and has declared war on Armenians.
Armenians are not asking Israel or the Jewish lobby to recognize the Armenian Genocide. We understand the importance of Israel to keep a balanced relationship with Turkey…. What we are asking is NOT TO DENY IT in order to serve Israel’s interest… there is a lot countries that recognize it. But, only……..
and only two countries are Denying it. Turkey and Israeli Government play the serious game to prepare against ” Apr.24″ with the jewish lobby….
The Armenian People and Government has the moral responsibility to speak about the Genocide of the Armenians. never will be Peace Between Turks- Jews & Armenians Until the Turks should admit its guilt before it’s too late. Enough is enough, with the double standard of Turkish and Jewish Government today, and continue with the denial… ” NEVER AGAIN” It’s very important for the Turkish People and Government today to understand there’s a common desire by a lot of Niations of this world to convince them because time is working against Turkey –sooner than later it’s bater for Turkish Government today to peacefully acknowledge and fully except responsibility of the Armenian Genocide .
The Turkish government refuses to acknowledge the genocide committed
against the Armenians.Turkey’s self-destructive obsession with denying the Armenian genocide seems to have no limits.
It is time for the Turks to realize that the greater danger to them is denying
history. HISTORY DOES NOT FADY AWAY…
THOSE WHO DO NOT REMEMBER THE PAST AND DENYING THE HISTORY
ARE CONDEMNED TO REPEAT IT.
“The future belongs to the nation who appreciates her past”
We urge you to stand fully behind Armenia. and the Armenian Genocide recognition… By Supporting Armenia you are Supporting the truth and Civilization.
Ari Armen
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.geocities.com/enver1908/jemal2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.geocities.com/enver1908/&h=600&w=363&sz=34&tbnid=Zf1fZJdmwzIJ:&tbnh=133&tbnw=80&hl=en&start=57&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthe%2BArmenian%2BGenocide%2B%2Bby%2B%2BTurkey%26start%3D40%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN
http://www.lobbyforcyprus.org/press/press2001/cywe270401.htm
http://www.turkishweekly.net/news.php?id=30163
http://www.marxists.de/middleast/schoenman/ch02.htm
http://www.rense.com/general63/armen.htm
http://www.texemarrs.com/052005/sea_of_blood.htm
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Genocide/Young_Turks_SBB.html